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Non-Skating Officials => Working with Referees => Topic started by: Major Wood on July 30, 2010, 03:03:50 pm

Title: NSO quota
Post by: Major Wood on July 30, 2010, 03:03:50 pm
Nashville is trying to establish a quota system for NSOs. Do any of you have existing quota systems for NSOs? If so, how is it structured? What are the strengths and weaknesses?
Title: Re: NSO quota
Post by: JoeXCore on July 30, 2010, 03:06:49 pm
I have no idea what you're talking about. Could you please explain?
Title: Re: NSO quota
Post by: Rowan De Boate on July 30, 2010, 03:55:38 pm
i second that motion  :)
Title: Re: NSO quota
Post by: Major Wood on July 30, 2010, 04:20:30 pm
Similar to skater quota. Make X number of practices to be eligible to work a bout. That kind of thing.
Title: Re: NSO quota
Post by: JoeXCore on July 30, 2010, 04:28:21 pm
Wow... we hope to get potential NSOs to one practice...
Title: Re: NSO quota
Post by: Darkjester on July 30, 2010, 04:29:52 pm
You mean your league doesn't give you 3 NSO's 5 minutes before the bout and says "How many more do you need?"

Title: Re: NSO quota
Post by: noidd on July 30, 2010, 04:37:55 pm
It's a great problem to have  ;D

I just moved from a league which serviced 23 NSOs and 7 referees per bout to a league with 1 NSO.

I'm building everything from the ground up again.

Get some of your NSOs doing stats duty.  Surely you can't have 23 of them!!?!??!
Title: Re: NSO quota
Post by: SeerSin on July 30, 2010, 04:39:48 pm
Currently we don't have an official requirement for NSOs, only skating refs. But attendance is taken into consideration when assigning positions for bouts.
Right now our NSOs come at least once per week to train and run a scrimmage practice, with some NSOs showing up twice per week depending on the scrimmage schedule set by the head coach.
We haven't had a need for a quota but if we did it would likely be 4 practices per month, and would probably only cover certain positions such as penalty tracking, scorekeeping, jammer penalty timing, and not outside white board.
Title: Re: NSO quota
Post by: Gravity Kills on July 30, 2010, 05:52:00 pm
Right now, we don't have enough NSOs to really impose a quota.  I ask that NSOs doing penalty tracking, penalty box, score, jam timing, and lineup show up to at least one of our weekly scrimmages in the month before a bout.  I try not to slot anyone in penalty tracking or scorekeeping who hasn't gone through at bare minimum 2-3 scrimmages.  We have a dedicated penalty box supervisor, and have trained up an assistant. 

Showing up at regular practices is fairly useless, as the skaters just do drills, thus leaving the NSOs looking on with no real practical reason to be there. 
Title: Re: NSO quota
Post by: Major Wood on July 30, 2010, 07:40:33 pm
Thank you Seer and Gravity.
I'm still looking to see if anyone has a set policy. Lets try to keep the discussion to the question asked, not how it's hard to believe that a league needs such a policy. Thanks.
Title: Re: NSO quota
Post by: DayGlo Divine on July 31, 2010, 02:22:33 am
Charm City does not have NSO attendance requirements, but the full-time NSOs take it upon themselves to attend as many scrimmages as they can, and they usually meet or exceed the ref attendance requirements.
Title: Re: NSO quota
Post by: Noah Tall on July 31, 2010, 02:26:32 am
NWA does not have any officiating practice requirements.  Only the refs come to practice, and it's optional.  NSOs are welcome at any practice, but none ever come.  Usually our NSO training consists of them showing up an hour before the bout to be trained in their position :(.  Luckily, many of them are repeat offenders, so we end up with a fairly well trained staff.
Title: Re: NSO quota
Post by: Rowan De Boate on July 31, 2010, 02:40:07 am
as a league requirment refs and nso's need to make 4 trainings per month.
we dont have dues as a lump sum, but each training $3 goes to the league, so this requirment is about supporting our league.

for skating refs you also need 4 trainings in the 4 weeks before a bout to ref .
we have have 13 refs and 3 permanent nso's.
refs have been unable too skate due to attendance this year, and have nso'd
we are looking into the 4 trainings in th 4 weeks for the nso's next season as our numbers will probably swell a bit.
at this stage there is nothing in place, but we havent really needed anything, the nso's come to regular scrimmage nights to hone their crafts and help newbies start out(refs and skaters roped into fill spots at bouts).
usually most of the nso's for a bout are refs that have excellent attendance(often better than the skaters)

hope this helps
Title: Re: NSO quota
Post by: JoeXCore on July 31, 2010, 07:33:28 am
Ref attendance requirements don't make a whole lot of sense to me. Most of the refs my league(s) deal with ref for multiple leagues. So either they practice with many leagues... and ref a lot of bouts... and are good enough to ref bouts that I staff, or they don't and they're not. I figure it's a job that needs to be done, and done well. If home refs aren't up to the task, I get someone else to do it.

I've worked with refs where it seemed like no many how many practices they made they weren't good enough. Those some "refs" (somewhat understandably) have gotten angry when I pulled someone from the crowd that completely quit reffing a month or two before to ref a bout, even though the home ref had made every practice for the last six months.\

But I guess you could count 3+ bouts a month and practices with multiple leagues as an attendance requirement.
Title: Re: NSO quota
Post by: RollBar on July 31, 2010, 09:36:19 am
Currently in place we have a bronze/silver/gold star tiered training system for our refs.  Bronze is basic skills and rules knowledge.  Part of moving from bronze to silver is holding bronze for at least 1 month and reffing 4 full scrimmages at the bronze level.  Moving from silver to gold is holding silver for at least 2 months, reffing 10 full scrimmages at silver and reffing at least 1 full bout.

Bronze - Scrimmage ref.
Silver - Intraleague ref.
Gold - Interleague ref.

Probably the closest thing we have to what you're wondering about.  We'd love to require NSOing x scrimmages/bouts but at this point we have 8 refs on the roster so we are all generally skating on scrimmage day.  Once we get a few more, we will probably implement "NSO 3 scrimmages and 1 bout to move to Silver" etc.
Title: Re: NSO quota
Post by: Rowan De Boate on July 31, 2010, 02:46:17 pm
Ref attendance requirements don't make a whole lot of sense to me. Most of the refs my league(s) deal with ref for multiple leagues. So either they practice with many leagues... and ref a lot of bouts... and are good enough to ref bouts that I staff, or they don't and they're not. I figure it's a job that needs to be done, and done well. If home refs aren't up to the task, I get someone else to do it.

I've worked with refs where it seemed like no many how many practices they made they weren't good enough. Those some "refs" (somewhat understandably) have gotten angry when I pulled someone from the crowd that completely quit reffing a month or two before to ref a bout, even though the home ref had made every practice for the last six months.\

But I guess you could count 3+ bouts a month and practices with multiple leagues as an attendance requirement.

we have recently( last 3 months or so) had another league start in adelaide.
until then the nearest league was about 600 miles away.
the only real way refs (in adelaide) have got experience and skills has been by being apart of ADRD.
even when we have more leagues in a resonable proximity, i suspect we may keep the attendance .
Title: Re: NSO quota
Post by: Cliquework on July 31, 2010, 04:13:11 pm
We also do not have NSO quotas for the fact that the skaters monthly training is cyclical. The first portion of a month may be more skills and drills. Endurance. As stated above, no need for NSOs at that point, other than the occasional meeting. THIS may be mandatory. As training ramps up towards scrimmaging during the cycle, NSOs have more of a purpose to attend practice. Additionally that cycle isn't 100% set, slightly shifting from week to week. As this is the case, it is difficult to assign quotas to NSOs.

If it were possible and scrimmaging were more consistent, I can't say I'd be opposed to some requirements. They aren't there to be difficult, but to ensure training and readiness. Those that are serious about their job would have no issues making them. It should be what they want to do.
Title: Re: NSO quota
Post by: Jessticular Fortitude on July 31, 2010, 04:26:43 pm
Can we please keep this discussion on actual NSO quota/attendance requirements that are in place in your league? We realize that there are very few of you, but that's the input we need because we're trying to develop a system here. Thanks!
Title: Re: NSO quota
Post by: Cliquework on July 31, 2010, 10:12:40 pm
Fair enough. To relate it then:

I'm sure you've figured this, but it seems it would need to be a percentage, not of total practices, but of practices that NSOs could be utilized.

In our case this requires that when the skaters post weekly practice times, that they also post what they will be doing that week and when. In our case it's for the refs to know when they could be utilized best for actual scrimmages, but could also be applied the same for NSOs.

So regardless of what percentage is assigned, it seems it will all be reliant on how the skaters practice and open/early communication from them of what they will be doing when, to allow a reasonable amount of personal planning for NSOs to be able to show up and give them a reason to be there, as opposed to an arbitrary NSO attendance requirement. Again, the purpose of attendance requirment obviously to ensure training.
Title: Re: NSO quota
Post by: Major Wood on July 31, 2010, 11:07:36 pm
This is pretty much a non-issue for us. The practices in Nashville are highly structured, with specific days each week dedicated to the same things. Endurance, scrimmage, etc.
Title: Re: NSO quota
Post by: Noah Tall on August 01, 2010, 02:36:50 am
This is pretty much a non-issue for us. The practices in Nashville are highly structured, with specific days each week dedicated to the same things. Endurance, scrimmage, etc.

*sigh*  A girl can dream...
Title: Re: NSO quota
Post by: Atomic Googolplexxx on August 05, 2010, 04:35:12 pm
I require my NSO's/Stats crew to be at all scrimmage practices unless i am notified in advance, I encourage them to show up to other practices if they are interested in learning different positions. having everyone show up for our scrimmages makes it easier to cross-train and be prepared if someone can not make it to a scrimmage or bout.
Title: Re: NSO quota
Post by: reflmao on August 05, 2010, 06:09:30 pm
Right now, we don't have enough NSOs to really impose a quota.  I ask that NSOs doing penalty tracking, penalty box, score, jam timing, and lineup show up to at least one of our weekly scrimmages in the month before a bout.  I try not to slot anyone in penalty tracking or scorekeeping who hasn't gone through at bare minimum 2-3 scrimmages.  We have a dedicated penalty box supervisor, and have trained up an assistant. 

Showing up at regular practices is fairly useless, as the skaters just do drills, thus leaving the NSOs looking on with no real practical reason to be there. 

I'll expand on what Gravity said.  Our charter was originally written to include that Penalty tracker, Score tracker, Penalty box main attendant and Jam Timer
needed to make 50% of scrimmages leading up to a bout, pass a written exam, and gain approval of peers.

Our league has a regular schedule so scrimmage day and time is well known.

But we really aren't able to get enough NSO's to make enough scrims so we had to modify our charter to allow our Head NSO discretion to assign NSOs that have made the other requirements but not attendance.
Title: Re: NSO quota
Post by: Typhoon Kerie on August 25, 2010, 12:34:37 pm
I am Head NSO here.  I am required to attend 3 scrimmages of 4 every month, Just like the refs.  I distribute paperwork at bouts, and explain your duties as a NSO, so I must also be able to perform all the positions.  I also make sure you are wearing the STAFF T-Shirt at bouts.  I am also working on my level one WFTDA stuff. 

IF i don't make my 3 I go on probation, If I don't make the 3 the next month I become inactive and  I cannot participate in the upcoming bouts. 

At games I distribute tracker clipboards, with pens/markers.  I also scrounge up fill ins if I don't have enough people show up, Usually we have enough respond to the email call for NSOs. 

We have 3 NSOs that show up to practice like I do, one is a ref recovering from an injury, and the other two of us are just learning to skate, but got bitten hard by the derby bug.  the rest of them are emailed about 2 weeks before a bout, asking if they want to participate, and the list of duties is made based on what you want/have previously done.  This late in the season I have people that have done the same position for every home bout this year.  I just started with this team in January or February, where I was before had none of this, though the head ref was looking for a few good people. 
Title: Re: NSO quota
Post by: Orgasmic Chemistry on October 24, 2010, 01:46:11 pm
Fairbanks Rollergirls has a quota of 25% of scrimmage practices three months before the bout for NSO's. (50% for Refs)
The league scrimmages once per week.
I am Officials Chairperson for our league and the next handbook revision I plan on requesting that in addition to the 25% attendance, require NSO's (and Refs) to be at scrimmage practice the two scrimmages prior to the bout.
It drives me insane that people do not show up at scrimmages!!
Title: Re: NSO quota
Post by: Stegoscorus on October 26, 2010, 07:13:16 am
Windy City Rollers' NSOs must attend 25% of scrimmages (scrimmage happens once per week) and 50% of bouts. 

Positions for the bout are assigned two weeks ahead of time typically, and the Head NSO asks that NSOs attend the scrimmage right before the bout if at all possible so they may be freshly practiced in their assignment, and in the configuration that people will be working in the bout.
Title: Re: NSO quota
Post by: Hi Refinition on October 27, 2010, 05:26:14 am
Arch Rival scrimmages once a week every week.  They also have one rec game a month.  (a game where retired & non roster skaters can play in a game.)  I require NSOs to make 2 scrimmages & the rec game 30 days prior to the a bout (skating refs are 5).  I also try an post 2 weeks before the positions everyone will work so they can get practice at the scrimmages.

ARRG currently has about 15 NSOs.  Some have troubles from time to time making the scrimmages, so I have waved the requirement when needed.  And some of my nso really only need to come once cause they really know what they are doing.