Zebra Huddle™

Non-Skating Officials => Working with Referees => Topic started by: Darkjester on August 16, 2010, 04:19:34 pm

Title: NSO/Referee Responsibilities
Post by: Darkjester on August 16, 2010, 04:19:34 pm
I'm helping a new (BRAND NEW) league out. I came up with a shorter 'synopsis' of Responsibilities/Positions for both NSO's and Referees. Can anyone critique or offer suggestions for anything I might have missed?

Key Positions:

NSO’s
•   Jam Timer-responsible for timing 2 Minute Jams & Starting the Jams after 30 seconds between Jams or 1 Minute for time outs.
•   Penalty Tracker (1-2) responsible for recording penalties on the tracking sheet & White Board.
•   Penalty Box Timer (1-2) responsible for timing penalties in the box, telling players when to “Stand” (at 10 seconds left) and “Done” when finished. Also responsible for telling players who enter from the wrong direction, or pass the point of no return to go back around. If Jammers swap out penalty seats-responsible for recording how long initial Jammer was in the box. 2nd Jammer only stays as long as the initial Jammer. Alerts OPR or HR if a skater leaves the box too early. May inform a skater how much longer she will be in the penalty box. Does not otherwise speak to skaters or coaches.
•   Penalty Wrangler-1 Assists Penalty Trackers in catching dropped off penalties for Refs, as well as catching outside white board operator penalties.
•   White Board Operators(1-2) Outside Pack Refs drop off minor penalties to outside white board operators who relay skater Color, Number Penalty to inside via white boards. If using full lap skate and wait (2 OPR) only 1 is needed. Using 3 ˝ Lap orbiting (preferred) then use 2 White Board Operators in opposing corners.
•   Point Trackers (2) One for each Jam Ref. Point Trackers stay with their Respective Jam Refs, so will count points for each team during the bout. When the Jam Ref switches teams at half time so do the Point trackers. Referees will signal points per pass verbally as well as with a hand sign. Point trackers acknowledge by flashing back the # of points to the Jam ref. Point Trackers CAN request an Official Time Out from Head Ref ANYTIME there is confusion about the points in between Jams.



Referees-All Referees May Call “Time Out” and “Official Time Out”
Referees are NOT responsible for enforcing Bout Contract Agreements. Referees are NOT responsible for enforcing Skater Ability. Referees ARE responsible for safety of all skaters, officials and spectators and must call off the Jam immediately if they suspect a dangerous condition. Referees and Officials MUST be unbiased during the bout regardless of league affiliation.Referees and NSO’s must NOT Coach the teams during the bout, or at Half Time.

•   Head Referee-Responsible for setting up NSO’s and Selecting Ref Positions during bout. Drops off penalties for referees unable to drop off from pack and Jam Referees. The only referee authorized to Expel a skater from the bout. Primary contact between Captains/Alternates and Referees. However, is NOT final authority in regards to a disputed call. Consensus of all referees is required. May act as Pack Referee if required.
•   Jam Referees (2) Responsible for Points and Penalties (Minor and Major) on Jammers, May also call penalties committed by other players against the Jammer. Drops off points to the Penalty trackers, May drop off penalties however is preferred to drop off to HR or Another Pack Ref to drop off to Penalty Trackers. Jam Ref should keep a running tally of all minor penalties their Jammer has before each Jam so that they may signal the Jammer to the box if the Jammer receives her 4th. Stays with the Jammer awaiting Jammer return from the Penalty Box.
•   Inside Pack Referee-(1-2) Responsible for making “Pack” location calls, Major and Minor Penalty calling on Pack Skaters, Major Penalty calling on Jammers.Assists Jam Ref by signaling “No Pass, No Penalty” or “No Pass, No Point” if the Jammer makes a legal but out of bounds pass and becomes ineligible for Lead Jammer.
•   Outside Pack Referee-(2-3 Not required but helpful) responsible for catching penalties that occur on the outside of the track. Will orbit the pack either in a 2 person full lap, or a 3 person ˝ Lap skate and wait orbit. Drops off minor penalties to the White Board Operator. Sends Major Penalty skaters to the box and skates in to drop off Major Penalties to the Penalty trackers. Assists Jam Ref by signaling “No Point, No Pass” or “No Pass, No Penalty” if the Jammer makes a legal but out of bounds pass.


Good Web Links!
www.wftda.com
www.zebrahuddle.com
www.skatelogforum.com
www.derbynewsnetwork.com

Title: Re: NSO/Referee Responsibilities
Post by: Ruins on August 16, 2010, 08:06:02 pm
Sorry, I wasn't sure how to quote. This is my first forum posting.

I'd put in one distinction on the item below. The OWB can track major penalties as well. It makes it sound like only minors are getting signalled to the OWB. YMMV.

Ruins

*******
•   White Board Operators(1-2) Outside Pack Refs drop off minor penalties to outside white board operators who relay skater Color, Number Penalty to inside via white boards. If using full lap skate and wait (2 OPR) only 1 is needed. Using 3 ˝ Lap orbiting (preferred) then use 2 White Board Operators in opposing corners.
Title: Re: NSO/Referee Responsibilities
Post by: teapotahedron on August 20, 2010, 10:00:21 pm
Don't forget to mention that there should be someone timing the 30 minute periods (I guess the Jam Timer?).
Title: Re: NSO/Referee Responsibilities
Post by: Sven WillIBeFamous on August 22, 2010, 06:11:16 pm
Don't forget to mention that there should be someone timing the 30 minute periods (I guess the Jam Timer?).
This is normally the responsibility of the Jam Timer.

I would also say that having someone who knows how to run the scoreboard is a useful addition.  I've been to some bouts where the scoreboard operator also has an assistant who double checks the scores being passed at the end of each jam and who helps to spot the names of the jammers and who is lead jammer.  I know these aren't essential positions but they are very useful.  I've seen people having total nightmares when running the scoreboard and so the timekeeper has to keep going over and getting the clock changed or where they take ages to adjust the scores after each jam.

Title: Re: NSO/Referee Responsibilities
Post by: high angle hell on September 09, 2010, 06:27:01 am
These are few things that I saw from reading your post about Jam Timers that is very useful for a new Jam Timer. When a team time out or Referee time out is done. He/She should be standing in front of pack when whistling is blown for them to return to the Pivot line. Also, for those that are standing there not to take off.

When the first whistle is blown to start the jam and Referee calls NO PACK immediately blow the 2 whistle to start the jammers. This is something that I learned when I first started doing Jam Timer. Being a Jam Timer is a very important role in a bout. This position can make or break a bout if not done correctly. Knowing pack definition is key for this postion.

Jam Timer needs to stop the period clock when a team takes a time out or a Referee calls for a time out. Make sure to check the Jam Timer period clock with the scoreboard period clock. If they not correct change them before the time out or Referee timeout is completed. Make sure to start the period clock along with the pack whistle.

One of the biggest mistakes that New Jam Timers do is start the jam without the head referee being ready or in position. Always check with the head referee before yelling 5 seconds or jam starts on this whistle before blowing the whistle to make sure everything is set and ready to go. Hope this information is helpful for your new jam timer.

Final thing I have to say is blow the whistle like your trying to take the buildings roof off that way there in no confusion if the jam has started or not. Be a little curtious if your just having a scrimmage in a small building with no crowd though! Good luck to ya....
Title: Re: NSO/Referee Responsibilities
Post by: Darkjester on September 09, 2010, 02:26:18 pm
Thanks everyone for the advice!
Title: Re: NSO/Referee Responsibilities
Post by: JimmyRage on September 09, 2010, 05:25:14 pm
These are few things that I saw from reading your post about Jam Timers that is very useful for a new Jam Timer. When a team time out or Referee time out is done. He/She should be standing in front of pack when whistling is blown for them to return to the Pivot line. Also, for those that are standing there not to take off.

+1

I've seen both the front IPR and the Jam Timer put themselves in front of the pack like this. I like to make a verbal indication to the pack that the whistle will be a "this is the end of the timeout, NOT a jam start!". There are times where even if you're 5 feet in front of the pack, hands doing the OTO signal, they make eye contact, all that jazz, and then WHAM you get assaulted by 8 rollergirls when that whistle goes off.

Quote from: high angle hell
When the first whistle is blown to start the jam and Referee calls NO PACK immediately blow the 2 whistle to start the jammers. This is something that I learned when I first started doing Jam Timer. Being a Jam Timer is a very important role in a bout. This position can make or break a bout if not done correctly. Knowing pack definition is key for this postion.

+1 again. One of my biggest pet peeves is when either a No Pack situation occurs or the defined pack has left the line (with a few stragglers hanging back) and the Jam Timer just hangs out waiting for the last skater to cross the line. Rules say when the last pack skater has crossed the line...

Also, note that the first jam whistle isn't a quick TWEET. It's a LONG TWEET. (Thank you, Ref Clinic East)

Quote from: high angle hell
One of the biggest mistakes that New Jam Timers do is start the jam without the head referee being ready or in position. Always check with the head referee before yelling 5 seconds or jam starts on this whistle before blowing the whistle to make sure everything is set and ready to go. Hope this information is helpful for your new jam timer.

This is something good to give a seconds' attention to during the pre-bout ref meeting (if you have NSOs in on it, I like to bring 'em in) or have the Head Ref pull the Jam Timer aside for a minute before the bout starts.

Quote from: high angle hell
Final thing I have to say is blow the whistle like your trying to take the buildings roof off that way there in no confusion if the jam has started or not. Be a little curtious if your just having a scrimmage in a small building with no crowd though! Good luck to ya....

That's why I always recommend people to get Fox 40 Sonik / Sonik Blasts instead of the classy Fox 40. Those little f'ers are LOUD even with a screaming, packed crowd around you.
Title: Re: NSO/Referee Responsibilities
Post by: Jessticular Fortitude on September 09, 2010, 06:23:27 pm
Also, note that the first jam whistle isn't a quick TWEET. It's a LONG TWEET. (Thank you, Ref Clinic East)

How long? I have been hearing people hold it out for several seconds which seems like overkill to me. 1 second long, sure, but 2-3? I have also heard it change tones which can sometimes sound like several whistles blasts instead of one, depending on the venue.
Title: Re: NSO/Referee Responsibilities
Post by: noidd on September 09, 2010, 08:53:18 pm
One of the biggest mistakes that New Jam Timers do is start the jam without the head referee being ready or in position. Always check with the head referee before yelling 5 seconds or jam starts on this whistle before blowing the whistle to make sure everything is set and ready to go. Hope this information is helpful for your new jam timer.

I disagree.  This is a matter of Head Ref preference.  As such, it is not a "biggest mistake" - it is a preference.

I give the instruction to my Jam Timer that unless I have called a Timeout to start the jam at the 30 second mark whether I'm ready, whether the skaters are ready, regardless.  Even if there is no-one on the track, that whistle goes at 30 seconds unless I say otherwise.

In my experience, allowing Jam Timers to hold for a few seconds increases the risk of affecting gameplay by giving tardy teams additional time to line up.  This is game affecting.

If you look at the "Advice for HR / Captains meetings" threads you'll see a conversation between Rev Riot and Johnny Zebra where one strongly prefers one way, the other strongly prefers the other.

I'm not stating one method is the better than the other.  I have my preference, others have theirs.

I just want to point out that it is not an NSO mistake.
Title: Re: NSO/Referee Responsibilities
Post by: JimmyRage on September 09, 2010, 08:58:38 pm
Also, note that the first jam whistle isn't a quick TWEET. It's a LONG TWEET. (Thank you, Ref Clinic East)

How long? I have been hearing people hold it out for several seconds which seems like overkill to me. 1 second long, sure, but 2-3? I have also heard it change tones which can sometimes sound like several whistles blasts instead of one, depending on the venue.

If we had to pin an exact number, I'd nail it to one second.

Changing tones? A buhh?
Title: Re: NSO/Referee Responsibilities
Post by: Jessticular Fortitude on September 09, 2010, 09:10:58 pm
Also, note that the first jam whistle isn't a quick TWEET. It's a LONG TWEET. (Thank you, Ref Clinic East)

How long? I have been hearing people hold it out for several seconds which seems like overkill to me. 1 second long, sure, but 2-3? I have also heard it change tones which can sometimes sound like several whistles blasts instead of one, depending on the venue.

If we had to pin an exact number, I'd nail it to one second.

Changing tones? A buhh?

Some people who shall not be named are a little overzealous.
Title: Re: NSO/Referee Responsibilities
Post by: mick hawkins on September 09, 2010, 11:49:14 pm
One of the biggest mistakes that New Jam Timers do is start the jam without the head referee being ready or in position. Always check with the head referee before yelling 5 seconds or jam starts on this whistle before blowing the whistle to make sure everything is set and ready to go. Hope this information is helpful for your new jam timer.

i dont entirely agree

if the head ref is in the middle of something and it's near the 30 seconds, the head ref can call an official timeout if he/she doesnt want the jam to start

keep in mind the period clock is ticking

i think a good jam timer is one who's aware of whats going on and will communicate with the head ref - watching for a signal/indication from the head ref

a bit of common sense is what's needed

for example...
if the head ref is with an injured skater down on the track -- the jam timer shouldnt start the jam. an official timeout should be called
vs
the head ref is with the penalty tracker and not in position, i prefer the jam timer to get on with the job and keep things running (like noidd says, different head refs have their way... and that's ok)

i'd say it's a mistake to not be aware of what's happening and not communicate
Title: Re: NSO/Referee Responsibilities
Post by: J. Ref K. on September 21, 2011, 03:58:43 pm

•   Head Referee-Responsible for setting up NSO’s and Selecting Ref Positions during bout. Drops off penalties for referees unable to drop off from pack and Jam Referees. The only referee authorized to Expel a skater from the bout. Primary contact between Captains/Alternates and Referees. However, is NOT final authority in regards to a disputed call. Consensus of all referees is required. May act as Pack Referee if required.
•   Jam Referees (2) Responsible for Points and Penalties (Minor and Major) on Jammers, May also call penalties committed by other players against the Jammer. Drops off points to the Penalty trackers, May drop off penalties however is preferred to drop off to HR or Another Pack Ref to drop off to Penalty Trackers. Jam Ref should keep a running tally of all minor penalties their Jammer has before each Jam so that they may signal the Jammer to the box if the Jammer receives her 4th. Stays with the Jammer awaiting Jammer return from the Penalty Box.
•   Inside Pack Referee-(1-2) Responsible for making “Pack” location calls, Major and Minor Penalty calling on Pack Skaters, Major Penalty calling on Jammers.Assists Jam Ref by signaling “No Pass, No Penalty” or “No Pass, No Point” if the Jammer makes a legal but out of bounds pass and becomes ineligible for Lead Jammer.
•   Outside Pack Referee-(2-3 Not required but helpful) responsible for catching penalties that occur on the outside of the track. Will orbit the pack either in a 2 person full lap, or a 3 person ˝ Lap skate and wait orbit. Drops off minor penalties to the White Board Operator. Sends Major Penalty skaters to the box and skates in to drop off Major Penalties to the Penalty trackers. Assists Jam Ref by signaling “No Point, No Pass” or “No Pass, No Penalty” if the Jammer makes a legal but out of bounds pass.



Any standard practice on who will call "No Pack", "Pack is Here", "Pack is Front", etc?  One technique is to leave it to the Head Ref but I prefer to have any of the IPRs call it as they see it.   Thoughts?
Title: Re: NSO/Referee Responsibilities
Post by: Darkjester on September 21, 2011, 04:13:59 pm
AFAIK nothing standard, however I do know what worked well in Mobile a few weekends ago was the HR (Taking the job of front pack ref) handled the majority of "No Pack" definition calls.  Immediately upon hearing a call of "No Pack" instead of all refs looking to redefine the pack, he instructed us to look for any penalties that needed to be called, while he would redefine the pack as needed.

I think that worked out very well for that bout.
Title: Re: NSO/Referee Responsibilities
Post by: SeerSin on September 21, 2011, 04:40:40 pm
It takes two to correctly define the pack. When the front inside ref is skating up to call the Out of Plays the rear pack ref should let the front ref know where the pack is by using "Pack is back", "pack is front" etc. Same goes for the reverse situation. When the pack is spread out and not easily defined it takes good communication between both inside pack refs to keep it straight. So it depends on the situation. Putting the respsonsibility completely on one referee can result in avoidable errors.
Title: Re: NSO/Referee Responsibilities
Post by: The Equalizer on September 21, 2011, 04:57:53 pm


When the first whistle is blown to start the jam and Referee calls NO PACK immediately blow the 2 whistle to start the jammers.


One of the biggest mistakes that New Jam Timers do is start the jam without the head referee being ready or in position. Always check with the head referee before yelling 5 seconds or jam starts on this whistle before blowing the whistle to make sure everything is set and ready to go. Hope this information is helpful for your new jam timer.

Final thing I have to say is blow the whistle like your trying to take the buildings roof off that way there in no confusion if the jam has started or not. Be a little curtious if your just having a scrimmage in a small building with no crowd though! Good luck to ya....

I always as a Jam timer say you should Discuss the first two with your head ref before the game.  A few will want you to blow the whistle before they call no pack, most Will not want you to blow before the no pack signal and verbal cue. 

Also before the bout as a jam timer, I ask the head ref whether he wants me to call an OTO if he is not in position at the 5 second mark.  Some will, some will not.  If he's not in position at the 5 second mark there is usually something going on that needed their attention.  So establishing that ahead of time will prevent starting a jam without people in place, and will prevent just random chatting. But letting the clock run past the 30 seconds between jams is not something i recommend it can throw off the jam clock/period clock.  If refs aren't ready and the head ref tells you to OTO it or Start it.  That way Game time is accurate.

Also ALWAYS blow the Whistle like you mean it.  Scrimmage, bouts, outside in the parking lot.  I also since we have a hard of hearing skater, I always do a hand motion with the pack start whistle and with the jammer start whistle.  It makes it obvious to everyone that the jam has started and you should be moving regardless.  I have a Fox 40 sonik blast and it is the most awesome of jam timing whistles.
Title: Re: NSO/Referee Responsibilities
Post by: HIM-roid on September 21, 2011, 11:04:06 pm
It takes two to correctly define the pack. When the front inside ref is skating up to call the Out of Plays the rear pack ref should let the front ref know where the pack is by using "Pack is back", "pack is front" etc. Same goes for the reverse situation. When the pack is spread out and not easily defined it takes good communication between both inside pack refs to keep it straight. So it depends on the situation. Putting the respsonsibility completely on one referee can result in avoidable errors.

Seer, so you are recommending that ONLY the IPR's can define the pack?
Title: Re: NSO/Referee Responsibilities
Post by: Interrobang Yerdehd on September 22, 2011, 12:02:20 am
"Pack is back", "pack is front" etc.

I want to emphasize the wording "pack is back". "Pack is rear", sounds a awful lot like "pack is here", which can be confusing.

Similarly, the answer to "How many minors does she have?" shouldn't be "none" (which sounds like "one"), but rather "zero".
Title: Re: NSO/Referee Responsibilities
Post by: bjmacke on September 22, 2011, 12:23:16 am
"How many minors does she have?"

I dunno. All of them?

Best to stick with "color number" and the response "color number has 1/2/3/4" or "color number is clear" if she's, well, clear. Also flashing an appropriate hand signal to reiterate the number is a good habit, too. Especially if the wrist attached to the hand has a wristband that's the same color as the team.

Title: Re: NSO/Referee Responsibilities
Post by: Interrobang Yerdehd on September 22, 2011, 12:51:07 am
Communication between officials doesn't need to be terse and codified like official-to-skater communication, and simply saying "[color] [number]" doesn't give enough information for the tracker to know what you're talking about. Between jams, yeah, they can probably get it from context. But when your jammer initiates a star pass, and you want to know how many minors the former pivot has, yelling "[color] [number]" is only going to confuse the penalty tracker, who is now expecting you to be calling a penalty.

But yes, "clear" is a perfectly acceptable alternative to "zero", and hand signals are good.
Title: Re: NSO/Referee Responsibilities
Post by: Insane Troll Logic on September 22, 2011, 08:03:09 am
As Jam Timer, one of the things that I'm listening for intently after blowing the pack starting whistle is for an indication that blockers behind the line are no longer part of the pack. I've been instructed by several highly qualified Head Refs to release the jammers as soon as I see a refs arms go up to signal "No Pack" or as soon as I hear them start to say "Pack is Front" or "Pack is Here". Nice refs don't say "Pack is Back" prior to the release of the jammers, nor do they say "Pack is Here" unless they are also indicating that blockers behind the pivot line are not part of the pack, just like they wouldn't whistle to indicate a major.

As to waiting for a signal from a ref before starting the jam. The WFTDA Officiating Manual says that this needs to be worked out between the HR and the Jam Timer prior to the start of the bout (section 10.5, sorry no link, the only official release that I've found is on the iPhone app).

The Referee and Officiating Standardized Practices says that Jam Timers are allowed to request an official time out if the 30 second line-up clock is about to expire. If I've called 5 seconds and one or more of the officials (usually the HR) are not in position, then I'm pretty much asking whether I should call an OT. A three second OT is often sufficient to get the job done.
Title: Re: NSO/Referee Responsibilities
Post by: SeerSin on September 22, 2011, 03:51:45 pm
It takes two to correctly define the pack. When the front inside ref is skating up to call the Out of Plays the rear pack ref should let the front ref know where the pack is by using "Pack is back", "pack is front" etc. Same goes for the reverse situation. When the pack is spread out and not easily defined it takes good communication between both inside pack refs to keep it straight. So it depends on the situation. Putting the respsonsibility completely on one referee can result in avoidable errors.

Seer, so you are recommending that ONLY the IPR's can define the pack?

Absolutely not. Defining the pack is primarily the responsibility of the inside pack refs. However if the inside refs are wrong the outside refs should let them know by defining the pack. I never tell any ref they are not allowed to define the pack, call a penalty, etc. I assign primary responsibilities, not exclusive responsibilities. Ideally the inside refs always know where the pack is and outside refs can concentrate on out of plays during a no pack, penalties ocurring near the outside line, and assisting the jam refs.
Title: Re: NSO/Referee Responsibilities
Post by: HIM-roid on September 24, 2011, 02:44:14 pm
Thanks Seer. I was making sure I wasn't over stepping my boundaries when I OPR. Thanks again,
Title: Re: NSO/Referee Responsibilities
Post by: FNZebra on September 24, 2011, 09:55:04 pm
Thanks Seer. I was making sure I wasn't over stepping my boundaries when I OPR. Thanks again,

When I OPR, my primary responsibilities during no-pack situations are to watch for:


If there is confusion among the IPRs defining the pack, or they are busy issuing penalties (can happen at the most inopportune times), or they are otherwise occupied, then I'll define the pack. It shouldn't happen very frequently. If I am doing it often, either I'm doing something wrong, or we're in one of those bouts (hint: if it's one of those bouts, the HR has probably made a specific effort to green-light this during a quick ref huddle, mid-bout.).

Echoing the no-pack call usually doesn't add much help, often hinders an OPR from performing the above duties, and typically means you will exclaim "no-pack" right after one has just reformed.  :-p
Title: Re: NSO/Referee Responsibilities
Post by: HIM-roid on September 25, 2011, 09:04:24 pm
Last night I was OPR and had great communication with the Jam Refs. I also got a thank you for calling the out of play penalties on the blockers so the jam ref could focus on his jammer and award lead jammer. This allowed him to award lead instantly instead of having to call the major and then award lead. Worked really good. and Yes, there were a few times where the OPR's had to define the pack.
Title: Re: NSO/Referee Responsibilities
Post by: SmackTavish on September 27, 2011, 05:10:22 pm
•   Penalty Box Timer (1-2) responsible for timing penalties in the box, telling players when to “Stand” (at 10 seconds left) and “Done” when finished. Also responsible for telling players who enter from the wrong direction, or pass the point of no return to go back around. If Jammers swap out penalty seats-responsible for recording how long initial Jammer was in the box. 2nd Jammer only stays as long as the initial Jammer. Alerts OPR or HR if a skater leaves the box too early. May inform a skater how much longer she will be in the penalty box. Does not otherwise speak to skaters or coaches.

Rules state a minimum of 2 penalty box timers.
Rule 9.1.5.3
Penalty Timing Officials: A game will have at least two officials to oversee the penalty box. The penalty timing officials time penalties and assist referees in ensuring a team skates short when they ought.
Title: Re: NSO/Referee Responsibilities
Post by: LESBRO on July 23, 2012, 07:26:21 am
As a Jam Timer, is it proper to work out communication with the Inside Pack Ref for help in defining the pack during a "slow derby" situation?  When there is a swirl of skaters going ahead and then behind the pivot line, it may be helpful to have help to define "the pack" as the last of them cross and you release the jammers.  Is there ever a case where refs and the Jam Timer sort of work out "the pack is here" signal when things are ambiguous?