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Non-Skating Officials => Working with Referees => Topic started by: Pinot Egregious on April 18, 2011, 01:17:21 pm

Title: OWB unofficial best practices
Post by: Pinot Egregious on April 18, 2011, 01:17:21 pm
This isn't really about working with Refs so much but there aren't a lot of NSO categories.

I wanted to share with a few unofficial "best practices" that several local leagues have recently adopted. I'm sharing them because I had a major hand in developing most of them.

Outside White Board has traditionally been a not terribly demanding NSO position. A few leagues I work with have recently started to change that.

1. The Score Reporter (aka Vanna White) should walk to each corner of the track where an OWB is posted and show them the white board. When the OWB does not have a penalty to report (which is usually) the OWB should copy down the score. The one closest to the announcer table should show it to the announcers and then to the crowd at their end of the track. The one closest to the scoreboard operator (these are at opposite ends of the track in most of the venues I work) should show it to that person and then to the crowd. Penalties still take precendence and I make that clear to all my OWBs but doing this keeps them busier, increases crowd participation in what's going on and has seriously cut down on annoucning/score reporting.

2. When the same skater gets two of the same penalty to the same OWB at the same time (rare but it does happen), the OWB should write the skater number and penalty code twice. Like this:
38E
38E
Title: Re: OWB unofficial best practices
Post by: DeCapitator on April 19, 2011, 05:49:48 am
I prefer the penalties to be stacked. 38E is a skater number. It should look like:

Black
38
E

In your scenario:

Black
38
E
E
Title: Re: OWB unofficial best practices
Post by: Major Wood on April 19, 2011, 01:10:47 pm
This isn't really about working with Refs so much but there aren't a lot of NSO categories.

This is a good point and I will try to add a general discussion section later today.


1. The Score Reporter (aka Vanna White) should walk to each corner of the track where an OWB is posted and show them the white board. When the OWB does not have a penalty to report (which is usually) the OWB should copy down the score. The one closest to the announcer table should show it to the announcers and then to the crowd at their end of the track. The one closest to the scoreboard operator (these are at opposite ends of the track in most of the venues I work) should show it to that person and then to the crowd. Penalties still take precendence and I make that clear to all my OWBs but doing this keeps them busier, increases crowd participation in what's going on and has seriously cut down on annoucning/score reporting.

There is nothing that I like about this. First, OWB operators have very specific things to do when they are not reporting penalties. During a jam, they are watching the OPR who will be at their turn next. A good OWB operator will often know what they should be writing before it is said directly to them. In between jams, the OWB operators should be watching the infield to make sure that they aren't needed by the head referee or the penalty trackers. Otherwise, in between jams, they are waiting. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

The "Score Reporter/Vanna White"... This is a personal thing, but very little else makes me instantly worry that the officiating crew is even halfway decent like seeing that they use a score girl. No experienced officiating crew I have ever worked with would ever allow one.

Lastly this feels like too much of playing to the crowd. There are certain things we do that are providing information to everyone (including the fans), but there is nothing that I can think of that we do which is solely for the fans. Let the announcers do their job.
Title: Re: OWB unofficial best practices
Post by: Brad Religion on April 19, 2011, 04:23:42 pm
The "Score Reporter/Vanna White"... This is a personal thing, but very little else makes me instantly worry that the officiating crew is even halfway decent like seeing that they use a score girl. No experienced officiating crew I have ever worked with would ever allow one.

Well. I don't know that I feel that strongly about it, but I would agree that they're effectively useless at this point. Most places I have reffed are putting scorekeepers on the outside now, which eliminates the need for this person. And, really, taking people out of the middle is a great thing indeed.
Title: Re: OWB unofficial best practices
Post by: FNZebra on April 19, 2011, 04:30:55 pm
The "Score Reporter/Vanna White"... This is a personal thing, but very little else makes me instantly worry that the officiating crew is even halfway decent like seeing that they use a score girl. No experienced officiating crew I have ever worked with would ever allow one.

In the home bouts of the league geographically closest to the house my bank owns, the decision of using a "score whore" is one made by bout production (aka the skaters), and is considered to be there for the fans. The decisions about select media photogs/videogs in the infield are also their to make -- as officials, we do make certain they know where to stand to remain as out of the way as possible, and injury waivers are required.

The scores are reported to the scorekeepers who relay to the scoreboard, then Vanna gets to do a partial lap on the inside for the fans to see the score on that whiteboard board as the main scoreboard is getting updated. The role is more ceremonial than functional at those bouts, and yes, the position has been filled by someone who apparently self-identified as a male, too.

I'm in full agreement that OWB should not have their attention compromised from the rest of the officials. It's bad enough when some of the new ones are watching the bout rather than the OPRs.
Title: Re: OWB unofficial best practices
Post by: Miss Trie on April 19, 2011, 04:38:03 pm
Couldn't agree with Wood and FN more.  OWB shouldn't be distracted with showing the crowd the score.  They have specific duties that doing that can interfere with.  Sure,  they're going to have "down time" between jams but that's part of the OWB job.
Title: Re: OWB unofficial best practices
Post by: Kung FU Hussy on April 19, 2011, 08:27:29 pm
The "Score Reporter/Vanna White"... This is a personal thing, but very little else makes me instantly worry that the officiating crew is even halfway decent like seeing that they use a score girl. No experienced officiating crew I have ever worked with would ever allow one.

In the home bouts of the league geographically closest to the house my bank owns, the decision of using a "score whore" is one made by bout production (aka the skaters), and is considered to be there for the fans. The decisions about select media photogs/videogs in the infield are also their to make -- as officials, we do make certain they know where to stand to remain as out of the way as possible, and injury waivers are required.

The scores are reported to the scorekeepers who relay to the scoreboard, then Vanna gets to do a partial lap on the inside for the fans to see the score on that whiteboard board as the main scoreboard is getting updated. The role is more ceremonial than functional at those bouts, and yes, the position has been filled by someone who apparently self-identified as a male, too.

I'm in full agreement that OWB should not have their attention compromised from the rest of the officials. It's bad enough when some of the new ones are watching the bout rather than the OPRs.

My league I skate for uses a "score whore," and although they are purely ornamental at this point (we have scorekeepers sitting outside the track), the skaters enjoy them and so do the fans.  Many fans can't keep track of how many points are scored per jam and although they can see the overall score on the display, they like to see how many occurred in a particular jam without having to remember what the score was previously and calculate in their heads.  I know I'm a newbie, but I don't know if I agree with the thought that the officiating crew could be poor because there is a score whore.  In many cases it's not the choice of the officals, but of the home team. 
Title: Re: OWB unofficial best practices
Post by: JoeXCore on April 19, 2011, 10:03:37 pm
The "Score Reporter/Vanna White"... This is a personal thing, but very little else makes me instantly worry that the officiating crew is even halfway decent like seeing that they use a score girl. No experienced officiating crew I have ever worked with would ever allow one.

In the home bouts of the league geographically closest to the house my bank owns, the decision of using a "score whore" is one made by bout production (aka the skaters), and is considered to be there for the fans. The decisions about select media photogs/videogs in the infield are also their to make -- as officials, we do make certain they know where to stand to remain as out of the way as possible, and injury waivers are required.

The scores are reported to the scorekeepers who relay to the scoreboard, then Vanna gets to do a partial lap on the inside for the fans to see the score on that whiteboard board as the main scoreboard is getting updated. The role is more ceremonial than functional at those bouts, and yes, the position has been filled by someone who apparently self-identified as a male, too.

I'm in full agreement that OWB should not have their attention compromised from the rest of the officials. It's bad enough when some of the new ones are watching the bout rather than the OPRs.

My league I skate for uses a "score whore," and although they are purely ornamental at this point (we have scorekeepers sitting outside the track), the skaters enjoy them and so do the fans.  Many fans can't keep track of how many points are scored per jam and although they can see the overall score on the display, they like to see how many occurred in a particular jam without having to remember what the score was previously and calculate in their heads.  I know I'm a newbie, but I don't know if I agree with the thought that the officiating crew could be poor because there is a score whore.  In many cases it's not the choice of the officals, but of the home team. 


Same league... I do wish we could be rid of this position.
Title: Re: OWB unofficial best practices
Post by: Pinot Egregious on April 20, 2011, 06:24:25 pm
Some pretty strong opinions. Perhaps I should share a bit of background how this came about...

It started initially with a new league during their very first official bout. (Hence relatively low level of experience among all officiating staff.) Their venue is also quite noisy; even more than many others I've worked. The scoreboard operators are behind plexiglass with a fairly bad glare on the inside of the booth, thus obscuring some of their vision of the track. Crowd bleachers are also placed right in front of the booth.

The league has little or not control over any of this stuff.

We were taking an official timeout after EVERY SINGLE jam, just to get the scores reported to the scoreboard operator. That was absurd. We tried walkie-talkies but no one could hear at either end. We tried having Vanna walk across the track and go over to the booth. In the end, it seemed a rather elegant solution to make better use of the underutilized OWBs.

As I said, I went out of my way to make very clear to the OWBs that their primary role was penalty reporting. This was just a five second add-on that takes place between jams.

It worked like a charm. So I carried the practice back to my own league. As Head NSO, I had complete discretion over implementing it. It worked well there too. There are two other very new leagues within 30 miles or so and most of our officiating staff does double duty at one or more of these other "local" leagues. The practice was carried there, always with extremely positive results.

---------------------
All that said, I had never heard nor even thought of putting the scorekeepers on the outside of the track. We are blessed to have five full-time NSOs, including two that are being trained specifically as scorekeepers. Since they are getting pretty damn good at the job, I am totally going to try this and see how it works for us. Thanks for the idea.

Pinot Egregious
Head NSO
Diamond State Roller Girls
Title: Re: OWB unofficial best practices
Post by: Miss Trie on April 20, 2011, 10:23:21 pm
Quote
Score Whore

Please stop using this term.  It does nothing for the legitimacy of roller derby.
Title: Re: OWB unofficial best practices
Post by: The Gorram Reaver on April 20, 2011, 11:08:26 pm
Quote
Score Whore

Please stop using this term.  It does nothing for the legitimacy of roller derby.
+1
Title: Re: OWB unofficial best practices
Post by: Darkjester on April 21, 2011, 04:50:42 am
At the same time it and of itself does nothing to further illegitimacy.

But I agree it is a term that could be considered offensive to some.
Title: Re: OWB unofficial best practices
Post by: HIM-roid on April 21, 2011, 10:30:24 am
Yes, the base is doing an article on a Fresh Meat skater and he asked for another name besides that due to PC. He said that term sounded degrading, so I totally agree with Miss Trie