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Non-Skating Officials => General NSO Discussion => Topic started by: Pink Freud on September 23, 2011, 06:31:44 pm

Title: Wranglers
Post by: Pink Freud on September 23, 2011, 06:31:44 pm
What are some opinions about the position?  I generally penalty track and have only had a wrangler for a few bouts.  I'm personally on the fence about them.  I suppose it depends on the situation. 

Thoughts?
Title: Re: Wranglers
Post by: bjmacke on September 23, 2011, 07:31:33 pm
Wranglers are extremely useful if you're doing 1PT and one inside whiteboard. Wrangler collects the penalties and notifies the refs of on-field skaters with three minors and six trips. The PT can focus on recording penalties and keeping the IWB and JRs up-to-date on skater penalties.

Wranglers become less useful in 2PT setups and (IMHO) when they're stationary.
Title: Re: Wranglers
Post by: Darkjester on September 23, 2011, 10:38:09 pm
Wranglers are ALWAYS useful as a position, to their degree though depends on the skill of the wrangler and to the extent they are utilized.

Regardless if its 1pt or 2 :-)

IMO a roving wrangler is best because they can catch penalties allowing the refs to keep their eyes on the pack longer, prevent Jam refs from removing their eyes from the jammers and missing an important call off, as well as allow for faster relay of 3rd to 4th minor penalties and catch outside white board penalties.

Title: Re: Wranglers
Post by: The Gorram Reaver on September 23, 2011, 11:21:50 pm
Wranglers are extremely useful if you're doing 1PT and one inside whiteboard. Wrangler collects the penalties and notifies the refs of on-field skaters with three minors and six trips. The PT can focus on recording penalties and keeping the IWB and JRs up-to-date on skater penalties.

Wranglers become less useful in 2PT setups and (IMHO) when they're stationary.

In my experience, Wranglers are always useful, regardless of the number of trackers being used.  Also, I have found Wranglers to be most effective when they are mobile.  If I have a Wrangler I love, it's because they are always right there when I am reffing inside.  I never, or very rarely, have to turn my head to report a penalty, which means I can focus my attention on the pack (or my Jammer) all the time.  When I'm reffing, that's really what I want most; a way to never have to take my eyes off the skaters. 

In addition to always being right there (i.e. splitting the distance between the innermost infield refs and the rest of the infield penalty staff, positioned between both IPRs), my Dream Wrangler repeats every penalty call that comes from a ref loudly & clearly so that we instantly know he has correctly received the penalty information.  He also knows who has three minors, so when I give him a minor that turns out to be a fourth he instantly lets me know and that skater is immediately removed from play.  Likewise, he knows who is on six box turns and tells me (or the Head Ref when it's not me) as soon as someone has fouled out.

The Dream Wrangler will always know what the number of each active Jammer is, and will note the minor penalties indicated by each Jammer Ref for each of the Jammers.  Typically, he will verbally confirm the minor penalty with the Jammer Ref if he does not hear the ref vocalize the penalty; this will help to ensure penalties indicated by the Jammer Ref are in fact for his/her Jammer and not for a Blocker, and that if the penalty is for a Blocker it is being properly recorded.  At the end of the jam, DW confirms the penalties for each Jammer with each Jammer Ref to ensure all penalties are properly recorded.


These are my notes on how Dream Wrangler operates.  They are entirely from the perspective of a referee.  Those who have worked with DW in the capacity of Penalty Tracker may have other things to contribute about what DW does at the other end of the interface.

Yes, I have made all the pronouns for DW masculine.  This is not to say DW cannot be female; DW can be whatever gender he, she, or it chooses to be.  This is solely a product of DW's incarnation within my crew in the person of one Benjamin Spanklin.  The things I have described are the things I have noticed him doing that make us all love him so much when he Wrangles for us.
Title: Re: Wranglers
Post by: bjmacke on September 23, 2011, 11:43:35 pm
To clarify, I say "less" and not "not". Wranglers are useful in 2PT setups, but aren't as necessary as long as the trackers are backing each other up on calls. In cases when I've worked severely understaffed scrimmages, it's better to do 1PT and a wrangler than 2PT and no wrangler. I say this from being both the tracker as well as the wrangler in that situation.
Title: Re: Wranglers
Post by: Tiger Woody on September 24, 2011, 12:33:05 am
I like having a wrangler to help, it gets pretty busy. They can also help watch the outside white boards.
Title: Re: Wranglers
Post by: Sven WillIBeFamous on September 26, 2011, 09:21:30 am
I like to have as many people in the centre helping the refs as possible (and safe).

Normally I go for a setup where we have 2PT, and 2 wranglers and then I ask the Jam Timer and the inside Whiteboard NSO to help with the wrangling.  i.e. they will be the ones to look at the outside whiteboards (and the whiteboard in the penalty box).
Title: Re: Wranglers
Post by: Brad Religion on September 26, 2011, 03:10:29 pm
I'd rather have no wrangler than a bad one. It's one of those jobs that is really hard to teach someone to do right before a bout. Someone with a little whiteboard right beside/behind me as I skate around has become one of my most favorite things in officiating.

But if they're stationary, or inattentive, or easily flustered? This is not the job for them.
Title: Re: Wranglers
Post by: The Gorram Reaver on September 26, 2011, 06:20:47 pm
I'd rather have no wrangler than a bad one. It's one of those jobs that is really hard to teach someone to do right before a bout. Someone with a little whiteboard right beside/behind me as I skate around has become one of my most favorite things in officiating.

But if they're stationary, or inattentive, or easily flustered? This is not the job for them.
Or if they have a tendency to watch the action on the track instead of the officials, definitely not the job for them.
Title: Re: Wranglers
Post by: Darkjester on September 27, 2011, 12:52:58 am
Same could be said for ANY nso position though  :(
Title: Re: Wranglers
Post by: The Gorram Reaver on September 27, 2011, 01:21:59 am
Same could be said for ANY nso position though  :(
I shall not disagree with you, sir.  ;)
Title: Re: Wranglers
Post by: Darkjester on September 27, 2011, 11:41:01 pm
I do have to say this, the lack of a wrangler as the past weekends bout which I was coaching really hindered things. Players who ended up being stuck in the box for 2 minutes at a time due to a Major penalty and late reporting of a 4th minor from outside to penalty tracker sucked for me.  I think we had 3 instances of it.

Once to the confusion of a skater who was sent to the box for a 4th minor reported AFTER a jam she wasn't even in (so it had to have sat on the outside for 2 or more jams)

Title: Re: Wranglers
Post by: Two Bit Score on September 28, 2011, 07:32:38 pm
Once to the confusion of a skater who was sent to the box for a 4th minor reported AFTER a jam she wasn't even in (so it had to have sat on the outside for 2 or more jams)
If the OPR doesn't skate it in at the end of a jam... the outside white board needs to sprint in and drop that off... IMPO.
Title: Re: Wranglers
Post by: SilkenTofu on September 28, 2011, 07:59:44 pm
Two Bit: Absolutely.  :) According to the WFTDA Standardized Practices (July 2011):

Quote
What is the procedure for an Outside Whiteboard Operator who has a penalty to report at the end of a jam?

If time allows, the Outside Whiteboard Operator shall run to the inside track to report the penalty to the Wrangler
Title: Re: Wranglers
Post by: Intejill on September 28, 2011, 08:23:17 pm
I'd rather have no wrangler than a bad one. It's one of those jobs that is really hard to teach someone to do right before a bout. Someone with a little whiteboard right beside/behind me as I skate around has become one of my most favorite things in officiating.

But if they're stationary, or inattentive, or easily flustered? This is not the job for them.
Or if they have a tendency to watch the action on the track instead of the officials, definitely not the job for them.

That depends.  Is said Wrangler watching the action because, Hey, I get to watch derby from the center of the track and it's awesome!  Or is said Wrangler watching the action to better anticipate refs' calls?
Title: Re: Wranglers
Post by: The Gorram Reaver on September 28, 2011, 09:57:53 pm
That depends.  Is said Wrangler watching the action because, Hey, I get to watch derby from the center of the track and it's awesome!  Or is said Wrangler watching the action to better anticipate refs' calls?

An excellent point!  If it's the watching to anticipate calls, that's definitely useful.
Title: Re: Wranglers
Post by: bjmacke on September 29, 2011, 12:12:48 am
+1

If you're keeping up with the pack refs (which most everyone agrees is a good idea if you're a wrangler), keeping the action in your line of sight along with your refs will allow you to anticipate skaters getting knocked to the infield as well as anticipating stepping out of the way of jam refs as they skate past the pack refs. In some cases on the apexes I'll step further towards the center and stand still so I'm no longer an obstruction to the increased mix of refs.
Title: Re: Wranglers
Post by: Gravity Kills on October 04, 2011, 08:58:37 pm
I'd rather have no wrangler than a bad one. It's one of those jobs that is really hard to teach someone to do right before a bout. Someone with a little whiteboard right beside/behind me as I skate around has become one of my most favorite things in officiating.

But if they're stationary, or inattentive, or easily flustered? This is not the job for them.

Honestly, the better option is to have someone who has done penalty tracking a bunch beforehand become the wrangler.  They'll know the penalty abbreviations, hand signs, and they'll know what they're watching and listening for.  If your wrangler is good enough, you can put a less experienced person on tracker.

Roc City's fortunate to have an exceptional wrangler, Barry Special.  He's attentive, catches penalties as they're called, monitors the owbs and penalty box whiteboard, and most of the time even catches the outside pack refs' calls before they can get to the whiteboard.  The refs rarely even have to turn their heads away from the pack.  He keeps pace with them and always seems to know where to be.  He projects well, so the trackers get nice, clear penalties called to them.  He's calm, even when dealing with torrential downpours of penalties.  Honestly, I'm tempted to interview him and add a third appendix to my manual.
Title: Re: Wranglers
Post by: Kal on November 11, 2011, 04:03:59 pm
Recently had my 1st bout as an NSO on PT (with a 2nd PT and Inside whiteboard) and I found having a Wrangler extreamly useful. Especially in this case as it was another (more experianced) Ref.

prehaps it is a possition for a more senior ref thats off skates for some reason (Injury or in this case was Refing the main bout )

Title: Re: Wranglers
Post by: MoJito on January 24, 2012, 04:14:58 pm
  Honestly, I'm tempted to interview him and add a third appendix to my manual.

I've been thinking of putting one together for my league as well - just for the sheer awesomeness of our 2 experienced wranglers.  They make things go so much smoother.
Title: Re: Wranglers
Post by: Retro Virus on February 08, 2012, 02:26:49 pm
I would have to agree that having a good wrangler can make things a LOT easier for the penalty trackers.  We recently had a very experienced ref wrangle for us at a bout (I was a PT for that bout) and he totally SCHOOLED us on what a good wrangler should do (LOUDLY repeating penalties, calm re-repeating of them when multiple penalties came in, constantly following the refs...he was AWESOME).