Zebra Huddle™

WFTDA => General Ref Discussion => Topic started by: Pallbearer on January 07, 2009, 02:40:52 pm

Title: NON-WFTDA referee certification information
Post by: Pallbearer on January 07, 2009, 02:40:52 pm
OK, check out the region map on www.wftda.com, read all the FAQ's you can find up there.
These are contact email for the people who control certification on the various regions.

Documents for certification will be made publicly available on the WFTDA website soon.

•      East Region: refcert_east@wftda.com
•      South Central Region: refcert_southcentral@wftda.com
•      North Central Region: refcert_northcentral@wftda.com
•      West Region:  refcert_west@wftda.com

Please remember, there are two people at the end of each of those email address' and they are not paid, and work very very hard and are very busy - please don't flood them, they'll get to you in good time.

*this information is given with permission of WFTDA*

As soon as the documents are made public those of us who have gone through the process should be able to help guide you through. The key is patience.
Title: Re: NON-WFTDA referee certification information
Post by: Professor Murder on January 09, 2009, 02:06:18 pm
You can go directly to the website's certification FAQ for answers to basic questions: http://www.wftda.com/officiating/referee-certification/

If it's not answered there, then contact your regional panel members.
Title: Re: NON-WFTDA referee certification information
Post by: angri-la on January 09, 2009, 02:19:13 pm
What if you're not in a WFTDA region?
It'd be great if refs over here could get certified but looks pretty impossible until our leagues are able to join WFTDA also.

Guess we'll all have to save those pennies and head Stateside
Title: Re: NON-WFTDA referee certification information
Post by: Professor Murder on January 09, 2009, 02:25:01 pm
Fly me over and put me up and I'll take care of it.

I'm half-serious.  The downside is that you have to have refereed WFTDA member teams at some point (to receive an evaluation form), which is rather unlikely, I think.
Title: Re: NON-WFTDA referee certification information
Post by: Jessticular Fortitude on January 09, 2009, 02:29:35 pm
Wasn't there a Birmingham vs Birmingham game last year? Maybe they should fly some WFTDA teams over there to play.... and me to come watch
Title: Re: NON-WFTDA referee certification information
Post by: angri-la on January 09, 2009, 02:38:13 pm
Wasn't there a Birmingham vs Birmingham game last year? Maybe they should fly some WFTDA teams over there to play.... and me to come watch

Think that was cancelled. Anyway I thought both leagues in the bout had to be WFTDA for it to be WFTDA Sanctioned. I believe there are discussions about expanding WFTDA so our leagues can join but have no idea how long that will take. We'd love you to come over anyway though! We're hosting a European Tournament July 18th/19th if anyone wants to come watch.
Ballistic reffed at Rollercon last year - does that count enough for him to get an evaluation?
Title: Re: NON-WFTDA referee certification information
Post by: Jessticular Fortitude on January 09, 2009, 02:47:21 pm
Hmm.. maybe, dunno

I'll ask some people in WFTDA and see what I can find out about it
Title: Re: NON-WFTDA referee certification information
Post by: JoeXCore on January 09, 2009, 02:55:34 pm
I am in no way speaking for the WFTDA but...

it is my understanding that Sanctioned bouts are bouts between 2 WFTDA teams that counts toward rankings, and regulation bouts are bouts between 2 WFTDA teams that do not count towards rankings (b-teams etc).
Title: Re: NON-WFTDA referee certification information
Post by: Johnny Zebra on January 09, 2009, 02:58:28 pm
We're hosting a European Tournament July 18th/19th if anyone wants to come watch.
Ballistic reffed at Rollercon last year - does that count enough for him to get an evaluation?

Unfortunately, no, unless he reffed/officiated the Salt City-Duke City WFTDA sanctioned bout @ Rollercon. I don't think challenge bouts can count as they're not regulation length; otherwise, he'd need to pick up an intraleague game at a WFTDA league somewhere (a home game @ a WFTDA league is good for levels 1/2) .

But I'll see you all for the EuroTourney -- Ballistic invited me over to ref, and I've timed my research trip to London to coincide. Looking forward to seeing everybody again!

And I might-could figure out a way to be allowed to administer the skating test while I was over (maybe  . . I have no idea) ;)

~j.z.
Title: Re: NON-WFTDA referee certification information
Post by: leadfoot on January 09, 2009, 03:29:25 pm
Angri-la...I will pass along your questions to the rest of the Ref Cert Panel for feedback.  We discussed this issue back a few months ago, so my memory is a little foggy.  Basically, I remember it being said that leagues in other countries (pertaining to Canada and Europe) are eligible to apply if they've reffed WFTDA regulation OR sanctioned bouts (either type of game counts towards Certification) and can get to their nearest WFTDA league to take the rules and skating tests.  I understand that it might be difficult for folks to do in Europe (maybe not so much for some of the leagues in Canada), but unfortunately, there's just not anything that we (the Panel) can do at the moment to make that process any easier due to obvious time, travel and money constraints.  One possible suggestion would be for those folks in London to try to get some of that paperwork taken care of if and when they attend events here in the States (WFTDA bouts, tournaments, RollerCon, boot-camps, etc).  Not much of an option, but it's the only one I can offer right now.

~Leadfoot
Ref Cert Panel - SC region

p.s. JoeXCore is correct about the definations of sanctioned/regulation bouts.
Title: Re: NON-WFTDA referee certification information
Post by: angri-la on January 09, 2009, 04:36:00 pm
Thanks everyone!

Joe - thanks, think I had sanctioned and regulation mixed up in my head.

Johnny - Yay! Look forward to meeting you in July then.

Any chance of finding out what the skating test involves so we can get prepared?
Title: Re: NON-WFTDA referee certification information
Post by: Major Wood on January 09, 2009, 05:10:56 pm
There was supposed to be Birmingham vs Birmingham... But Birmingham, AL is not a WFTDA member league. Both leagues need to be WFTDA leagues though.
Title: Re: NON-WFTDA referee certification information
Post by: Johnny Zebra on January 09, 2009, 06:14:34 pm
Any chance of finding out what the skating test involves so we can get prepared?

Let me check on that -- skating evaluations "have to be completed by an authorized league representative," so I'd have to find out from the powers that be if it would be appropriate for me to do so in the special case that I was over in the UK. Normally, I think it would be a member of a league's coaching staff, which I am not.

As Pallbearer mentioned the certification materials should be made publicly available by WFTDA soon, and I'm sure he'll let us know :)

~j.z.
Title: Re: NON-WFTDA referee certification information
Post by: leadfoot on January 09, 2009, 06:57:34 pm
I'll do you one better, J.Z...I posted your proposal back to the Panel and here's the response:

The rules still need to apply regardless of the situation.  It still has to be an approved WFTDA rep administering the tests.  We realize this limits our ability to possibly get certifications for overseas refs right now, but our resources are limited at the moment and we apologize for any inconvenience.
Title: Re: NON-WFTDA referee certification information
Post by: Johnny Zebra on January 09, 2009, 07:24:31 pm
I'll do you one better, J.Z...I posted your proposal back to the Panel and here's the response:

The rules still need to apply regardless of the situation.  It still has to be an approved WFTDA rep administering the tests.  We realize this limits our ability to possibly get certifications for overseas refs right now, but our resources are limited at the moment and we apologize for any inconvenience.

Now that's efficiency! Thx, Leadfoot -- we have our answer.

One question, while we're on the topic: what constitutes an approved WFTDA rep? Does that mean a member of a league's coaching committee, a captain, one of the two listed WFTDA reps for the league, one of the two WFTDA ref reps for the league, a certified ref of a certain level, or  ? ? ? ?

~j.z.
Title: Re: NON-WFTDA referee certification information
Post by: Jessticular Fortitude on January 09, 2009, 07:29:29 pm
One question, while we're on the topic: what constitutes an approved WFTDA rep? Does that mean a member of a league's coaching committee, a captain, one of the two listed WFTDA reps for the league, one of the two WFTDA ref reps for the league, a certified ref of a certain level, or  ? ? ? ?

~j.z.

I know it for sure means one of the listed WFTDA reps for the league, not sure if a ref rep would count though (cue Leadfoot), but it can't just be a coach or captain.
Title: Re: NON-WFTDA referee certification information
Post by: Ballistic Whistle on January 09, 2009, 07:58:25 pm
unless he reffed/officiated the Salt City-Duke City WFTDA sanctioned bout @ Rollercon.
Actually, I was score tracker for that bout. I believe that gets me some points.

I was wondering about this, due to our non-region-ness.
Title: Re: NON-WFTDA referee certification information
Post by: leadfoot on January 09, 2009, 08:08:51 pm
One question, while we're on the topic: what constitutes an approved WFTDA rep? Does that mean a member of a league's coaching committee, a captain, one of the two listed WFTDA reps for the league, one of the two WFTDA ref reps for the league, a certified ref of a certain level, or  ? ? ? ?

~j.z.

I know it for sure means one of the listed WFTDA reps for the league, not sure if a ref rep would count though (cue Leadfoot), but it can't just be a coach or captain.

Jess is correct...an 'authorized league rep' needs to be one of your 3-5 WFTDA league reps (Class A leagues have 5 reps; Class B leagues have 3 reps, I believe) - OR - you can have one of the 5 Ref Certification Panel Members administer the tests.  It cannot be a coach, capt or ref from your league.  We do e-mail ALL of the references listed on the documents to verify them too, BTW. 

Oh...and before I forget, if it's not already up on the WFTDA peanut, we are compiling and have posted (or will post) a list of authorized league reps that can be contacted to fill out ref evals too.  Hopefully, that will make the process a little smoother.
Title: Re: NON-WFTDA referee certification information
Post by: angri-la on January 09, 2009, 08:41:55 pm
I'll do you one better, J.Z...I posted your proposal back to the Panel and here's the response:

The rules still need to apply regardless of the situation.  It still has to be an approved WFTDA rep administering the tests.  We realize this limits our ability to possibly get certifications for overseas refs right now, but our resources are limited at the moment and we apologize for any inconvenience.

Yeah, I figured it was unlikely Johnny'd be able to test us - plus don't think I'd be ready anyway as I have to have surgery on my ankle soon (broke it last year and now having the metal plate and screws removed). Just curious about the skating requirements as it'd be good to have something to work towards. Hopefully they'll make that public anyway - can't see any reason to keep it secret.

Thanks for all the advice. I'm loving this forum sooo much. I also just told my boyfriend we need to quit our jobs, buy a campervan and travel round the States so I can meet you all and become a SuperRef.
Title: Re: NON-WFTDA referee certification information
Post by: leadfoot on January 09, 2009, 09:06:25 pm
The ref cert documents were sent in on 1/7 to be posted to wftda.com.  Hopefully, they will appear shortly.

The skating skills test is not too hard, IMO.  It covers basic agility (such as hopping, knee taps, falls, slaloms, etc) and also includes a timed lap test on the derby track.
Title: Re: NON-WFTDA referee certification information
Post by: Nails on January 10, 2009, 05:02:20 am
WOW Ledfoot you are a veritable font of useful information. Thanks!
Title: Re: NON-WFTDA referee certification information
Post by: Jessticular Fortitude on January 10, 2009, 06:00:29 pm
WOW Ledfoot you are a veritable font of useful information. Thanks!

Well she IS on the WFTDA Referee Certification Committee....
Title: Re: NON-WFTDA referee certification information
Post by: Catch22 on January 14, 2009, 06:50:43 pm
Quote
Leadfoot
Jess is correct...an 'authorized league rep' needs to be one of your 3-5 WFTDA league reps (Class A leagues have 5 reps; Class B leagues have 3 reps, I believe) - OR - you can have one of the 5 Ref Certification Panel Members administer the tests.  It cannot be a coach, capt or ref from your league.  We do e-mail ALL of the references listed on the documents to verify them too, BTW. 

Oh...and before I forget, if it's not already up on the WFTDA peanut, we are compiling and have posted (or will post) a list of authorized league reps that can be contacted to fill out ref evals too.  Hopefully, that will make the process a little smoother.

Would please post here when that list is compiled? I'm up in Canada, I'd love to be certified however like the Board, my "resources" are limited. I'm wondering if it would be possible to have a mini-cert workshop up here. Leadfoot, do you think such a thing could be possible if the leagues attending paid for expenses?

Any word on what it takes for a league to become part of the WFTDA? Posting a link to the information would be just fine too.
Title: Re: NON-WFTDA referee certification information
Post by: pinkyglee on January 14, 2009, 07:36:18 pm
There was supposed to be Birmingham vs Birmingham... But Birmingham, AL is not a WFTDA member league. Both leagues need to be WFTDA leagues though.

just to clarify.  TCR (Birmingham USA) is not currently WFTDA but they're workin on it.  and yes, that bout was cancelled.  tentatively looking at 2010 is my understanding.

btw, i'm really loving this forum.  thanks, wood.
Title: Re: NON-WFTDA referee certification information
Post by: Riff Reff on January 15, 2009, 12:34:24 pm
@ballistic

we should think about starting EFTDA ;-)
Title: Re: NON-WFTDA referee certification information
Post by: leadfoot on January 15, 2009, 01:28:02 pm
Would please post here when that list is compiled?

Will do!  Back in early December, we sent an e-mail out to all leagues' reps and asked them to send in the names of authorized reps to fill out evals.  I can check on the status of that right now.

As far as holding a mini 'ref-cert' workshop in Canada, I'll post your question to the rest of the Panel and get back to you ASAP.

Also, here's a link on how to become a member league of the WFTDA: http://www.wftda.com/membership-information/

Title: Re: NON-WFTDA referee certification information
Post by: Poobah on January 24, 2009, 12:41:52 am
Unfortunately, no, unless he reffed/officiated the Salt City-Duke City WFTDA sanctioned bout @ Rollercon. I don't think challenge bouts can count as they're not regulation length; otherwise, he'd need to pick up an intraleague game at a WFTDA league somewhere (a home game @ a WFTDA league is good for levels 1/2) .

It's my understanding that that was NOT a WFTDA sanctioned bout anyway. I think it was Duke City's rostered travel team, but it wasn't Salt City's. Or so one of them told me. I do know that the stats for this bout were never posted in the WFTDA stats group, which also suggests that it wasn't sanctioned. What gets additionally weird is that there was no host league for that bout. It wasn't at either league's home, it wasn't a tournament, and it wasn't hosted by Fabulous Sin City Rollergirls (or it would've been my job).

There's probably better ways of figuring out what's sanctioned or not, but those'd be a mystery to me.

Sorry for the derail, but the status of that bout has been a mystery to me since it happened.
Title: Re: NON-WFTDA referee certification information
Post by: Johnny Zebra on January 24, 2009, 02:48:23 pm
Interesting; my (unofficial) sources tell me it was sanctioned.

But it was regulation (played by straight WFTDA rules), right?  As long as the leagues were WFTDA, it'd still serve for levels 1-2 (assuming one of them fills out an evaluation), and if regulation for levels 3-5.

~j.z.
Title: Re: NON-WFTDA referee certification information
Post by: bronco on January 27, 2009, 09:15:36 am
Will there be any special programs for referee certification at RollerCon09?

Seems like the right place for refs to "take it up a notch" :)

... Bronco
Title: Re: NON-WFTDA referee certification information
Post by: Professor Murder on January 27, 2009, 12:37:12 pm
You can go directly to the website's certification FAQ for answers to basic questions: http://www.wftda.com/officiating/referee-certification/

If it's not answered there, then contact your regional panel members.


Open links to the certification documents are up on the FAQ page (use the link above).
Title: Re: NON-WFTDA referee certification information
Post by: Crash Test Ref on January 30, 2009, 01:01:19 pm
@ballistic

we should think about starting EFTDA ;-)

At the moment, we have no WFTDA certified leagues in Europe, but we use the same standards and evaluation forms for the skaters, and each league keeps these forms as a learning and assessment tool for their own skaters. 

Since the forms are online, we should do the same for refs who want to be evaluated by other leagues, and keep a record of it.  We'd be doing exactly what skaters all over Canada and Europe (and elsewhere) have been doing for a couple of years already.
Title: Re: NON-WFTDA referee certification information
Post by: Dick Bastardly on November 15, 2009, 01:19:41 pm
Hi,

Sorry to drag up an old thread, but now London are in the apprentice program, does this mean UK refs may soon have a chance to be certified?

Thanks,
DB
Title: Re: NON-WFTDA referee certification information
Post by: Harry Spoter on November 15, 2009, 01:37:59 pm
As far as i know you dont have to be from a WFTDA league to become Certified anymore??? Correct me if im wrong??
Title: Re: NON-WFTDA referee certification information
Post by: Jessticular Fortitude on November 15, 2009, 02:26:20 pm
Correct, it doesn't matter where you come from; if you meet the requirements for certification, you can apply for it. I will say though, if London is the only apprentice league over there you'll be hardpressed to find a lot of regulation bouts to work, so you'd need to travel over to the US to get more bout experience.

And time to plug the ol' officiating resume. Go ahead if you haven't and start up an online resume (I'd recommend Google docs) so you can keep track of all the bouts you have worked and the position you did. Keep a running tally somewhere on there for a quicker read. Mine is in my profile if you want an example of one way to do it. A bunch of us on here have one, so look around for different styles.
Title: Re: NON-WFTDA referee certification information
Post by: Riff Reff on November 16, 2009, 04:07:21 pm
Quote
Sorry to drag up an old thread, but now London are in the apprentice program, does this mean UK refs may soon have a chance to be certified?

I would like to point you to the EuroRefs forum (http://euroderby.org/eros/). We are in the middle of discussing this topic. Since getting a WFTDA certification without reffing in the US is something unlikely to happen in the near future, we are thinking about how to establish standards/evaluation/certification in Europe in order to guarantee a certain level of officiating.
The primary thought is to copy the WFTDA certification system. (Which does not make you a WFTDA certified ref and has no relevance outside of Europe) But nothing's decided yet. to quote Ballistic:

Quote
There's more questions than answers at this stage. No one has made any
decisions, nor is anyone in the position to make any just yet.
[…]
I think we really need to get as many of us as possible around a table to
discuss face to face before any concrete plans are made.
~bw~
Title: Re: NON-WFTDA referee certification information
Post by: Noah Tall on December 20, 2009, 04:11:20 pm
Thanks, Jess.

I just copied your format, but I added a column for ref evals, so I can track who I requested them from, and whether they were received.   I must say, mine looks very sad, but our season starts in 3 weeks, so it will soon be filling out ;).
Title: Re: NON-WFTDA referee certification information
Post by: Derby Rodriguez on January 23, 2011, 07:18:20 am
Hi, ref in training here training with the Bay City Rollers league in Napier, New Zealand ... is there any way I can go for WFTDA certification in New Zealand?  Please accept my apologies if this has been covered, but I have only a short time on PC so can't read every post!

D-Rod
Title: Re: NON-WFTDA referee certification information
Post by: Noah Tall on January 23, 2011, 02:55:16 pm
The only way to earn certification is to get evaluations from reffing or NSOing in WFTDA regulation or sanctioned bouts.  So, while yes, you can earn certification, you will have to travel to a WFTDA league in order to do so.  AFAIK, London is the only WFTDA league on that side of the world, but there are several apprentice leagues coming up in Australia and Europe.  I haven't heard of any in Asia.  Your closest league might be Hawaii right now.
Title: Re: NON-WFTDA referee certification information
Post by: Sven WillIBeFamous on January 24, 2011, 03:41:59 pm
The only way to earn certification is to get evaluations from reffing or NSOing in WFTDA regulation or sanctioned bouts.  So, while yes, you can earn certification, you will have to travel to a WFTDA league in order to do so.  AFAIK, London is the only WFTDA league on that side of the world, but there are several apprentice leagues coming up in Australia and Europe.  I haven't heard of any in Asia.  Your closest league might be Hawaii right now.

Auld Reekie Roller Girls(Edinburgh, Scotland) are an Apprentice league as of last year and I believe there are a couple of others in Europe (Berlin?).  I know this mainly as I whore myself out as an announcer from time to time for ARRG.
Title: Re: NON-WFTDA referee certification information
Post by: Professor Murder on January 24, 2011, 04:01:37 pm
So, while yes, you can earn certification, you will have to travel to a WFTDA league in order to do so.

This is correct for the time being.

Officials in Australia and New Zealand suffer the most because of this structure.  But, for now, it is the structure.

That said, WFTDA Referee Certification has been listening and is aware of those shortcomings.
Title: Re: NON-WFTDA referee certification information
Post by: fiona poppins on October 06, 2011, 04:07:08 pm
I am interested in becoming certified a well it seems impossible. we are in a very rural area with out a certified refs for miles. i was told to find a mentor to help me trough the process. the problem seems to be that the number bouts actually quallified for certifications is small and there also has to be the correct personal to do the eval. My Question is would any refs be interested in a ref sponsered tournament. the idea being if you were invited to attend could leave with several evals under your belt for the year. plus at least one ref in your league would be on there way to certification and could help insruct their staff correctly? 
Title: Re: NON-WFTDA referee certification information
Post by: Shaun Ketterman on October 06, 2011, 06:03:28 pm
I am interested in becoming certified a well it seems impossible. we are in a very rural area with out a certified refs for miles. i was told to find a mentor to help me trough the process. the problem seems to be that the number bouts actually quallified for certifications is small and there also has to be the correct personal to do the eval. My Question is would any refs be interested in a ref sponsered tournament. the idea being if you were invited to attend could leave with several evals under your belt for the year. plus at least one ref in your league would be on there way to certification and could help insruct their staff correctly? 

If you want to become certified, you're going to have to be willing to travel for it.  If you're isolated and not lucky enough to live in an established derby town, you need to be willing to drive for regulation and sanctioned bouts; they're not going to come to you.  I was driving anywhere from 1-3 hours each way for my early bouts.  That's the reality.  Secondly, you have to be willing to start at the bottom.  You need to be willing to NSO and  let other referees get a feel for you and your level of competence before they'll be willing to put you on crews.  There should be no job that you're too good for.  I've been doing this since 2008 and it still holds true for me.  Finally, three evals, assuming they're all positive, is the minimum to be eligible for certification.  I'd recommend shooting for at least triple that number before applying.   
 
Title: Re: NON-WFTDA referee certification information
Post by: FNZebra on October 06, 2011, 06:09:04 pm
I am interested in becoming certified a well it seems impossible. we are in a very rural area with out a certified refs for miles. i was told to find a mentor to help me trough the process. the problem seems to be that the number bouts actually quallified for certifications is small and there also has to be the correct personal to do the eval. My Question is would any refs be interested in a ref sponsered tournament. the idea being if you were invited to attend could leave with several evals under your belt for the year. plus at least one ref in your league would be on there way to certification and could help insruct their staff correctly?  

Refs would always be interested in such a tournament -- the larger issue is getting the WFTDA skaters from different leagues together for the regulation and sanctioned bouts.  ;)

In theory, a third-party ref could earn up to three* evals from a single bout -- one from the head ref, and one from each team.

As a rural ref who wants to become certified, you will have to travel. A lot. And continually prove yourself to new people as you move up the levels of play. Plain and simple. It will take time, effort, and cash. Think about this as a two-year plan or so, realistically, to where you are getting offers that will generate a lot more eval opportunities.

Based on where you are, I predict some time spent on I-25, so take advantage of the mp3 files that someone generously provided of the current ruleset. There's a link here on ZH somewhere to them...

Ft Collins is an hour from you. Start to volunteer as an NSO with them or other Front Range leagues, to show them you are serious (and competent), and ask to move toward reffing their scrimmages, which then may lead to doing actual bouts. Even shadowing their refs at scrimmages will help you to grow as a ref.

Volunteering with non-WFTDA leagues will help you improve, also. The more bouting experience you can get, the better.

Until your league goes WFTDA, that is what you will have to do with other WFTDA (full and apprentice) leagues, to gain a toehold.

Then there will be area 'tournaments' near you (with "near" being a very relative term in the Rockies), which you should try to get into as an official, so that other people (aka other certified refs) will learn about you and your quality of work.

All that may take a year or two or more, depending on your skating skills, your reffing skills, how motivated you are, your availability, and your bank account and travel options.

Then the next step will to start getting onto WFTDA multi-day event rosters. These are usually your best option for getting evals. It takes a while to get up to that level, though, particularly if your league isn't WFTDA or doesn't inherit an already certified ref who moves to Cheyenne.

But don't give up. It is possible, difficult, but possible. I know certified refs who are independents (not affiliated with WFTDA leagues), and refs from Australia and Europe have become certified, too. EDIT: Like Shaun, who just beat me to the Post button, or Harry Spot'er, who posted in this thread before earning his cert.

And while I live in the same town as a WFTDA league, I usually have to travel 1-4 hours, to reliably get evals. (Our HR can't write them for me for our home bouts, so that just leaves the visiting team's eval as an option there; some are better than others for doing them.)

*Actual response rates will vary wildly.
Title: Re: NON-WFTDA referee certification information
Post by: PackMan on October 06, 2011, 08:39:26 pm
you have to be willing to start at the bottom.  You need to be willing to NSO and  let other referees get a feel for you and your level of competence before they'll be willing to put you on crews. 

Don't get caught up in thinking there is a ladder to climb of various officiating positions.  Every official, (OPR, IPR, JR, and the plethera of NSO jobs) is needed in a bout.  Every job has ups and downs.  Many are a lot of fun to do, and they will all teach you something about this sport and the reffing of it if you pay attention.  As Shaun said, volunteer to NSO.  It's a great way for people to get to know you and gain confidence in you.  There are twice as many NSOs needed per bout and less sompetition for those spots so you will get your foot in the door easier that way.
Title: Re: NON-WFTDA referee certification information
Post by: fiona poppins on October 07, 2011, 01:32:03 am
so you do not think that new leagues without any certified refs would travel to a tournament with in there region to get one certified ref on staff. I really think it would be best with only 12 teams. 7 that have no certified ref staff and 5 who have a well developed certified ref staff. i think more developed leagues would come for the chance to level up their refs. I like the  name masters tournament. the stats on Certified ref and position in national standings is compelling rather it is easier to build the ref staff because the better the league the more chance for high level evals or the league is better due to the increase knowledge of the ref staff is up for grabs.  but i am truly in love with the idea that it would be like ref boot camp starting with clinics before the tourny even started then an exhibition bout with all certified refs so the newbies can see how it is done . i also like the idea of setting up scenarios with skaters to demonstrate misunderstood calls.  my league is applying for apprenticeship it would be nice if this tourny could be or first as a wftda league. i am assuming it would take that long to organize. plus it is important to me that this event is for the refs by the refs.  I would also prefer if there were only regulation bouts. The other thing that is vital is standards of practice because we want it to be the best place for a crash course not a fly by night operation.   this is only my rock star dream wish the problem i am having is where do i start to get it done ?
Title: Re: NON-WFTDA referee certification information
Post by: Noah Tall on October 07, 2011, 02:17:45 am
Well, the first place to start would be to start raising money.  A tournament can cost many thousands of dollars to put on.  Once you get the money, then start building your behind the scenes staff.  These are going to be the people who are willing to work all day, or all weekend at the tournament, for no pay and little thanks.  Once you get the commitment from these folks, then you start building a prep team.  These are the folks who will get your advertising out, find sponsors, secure a location, get beer, sign contracts, and do all the little things that need to be done before a bout can be planned.  Finally, once you've found a venue and have the money and have an excited bout production crew in place, you can start inviting teams.  Once you get your teams committed (and remember they must be WFTDA or Apprentice Leagues), then you put out a call for refs and NSOs.

It's a huge commitment, and a hella lot of work, and you'll be lucky if your league breaks even.  But, if done properly, it can also be a lot of fun.
Title: Re: NON-WFTDA referee certification information
Post by: fiona poppins on October 07, 2011, 05:04:30 am
really i was going to start with standards of practice and rules then . i was going to start taking application for ref staff.  i assumed that this unique chance would be very sought after by refs .I be leave the ref will encourage their teams to participate. ( so if the ref gets the invite their league gets the invite). plus i thought apprentice leagues could not be used in evals. only Wftda leagues.  the reason for keeping only to 12 teams limits the number of refs who can come.  Any other refs who want to participate or volunteer for the work can. it would be a great networking. a opens doors to receive invites to sanctioned or regulation bouts. I agree with the raising money though does any one no how much it actually cost or what cost i could expect?
Title: Re: NON-WFTDA referee certification information
Post by: Interrobang Yerdehd on October 07, 2011, 07:20:32 am
I think you're overestimating the influence refs have on their associated teams. Traveling any significant distance is costly. Adding a ref or two to a group of maybe 12 skaters already traveling to a given destination is fairly easy. Adding just 9 skaters to a group of 3 travelling refs, though, is quadrupling the amount of money needed.

Book teams first, then get refs.

Getting the all the teams and not having enough refs would be annoying. Getting all the refs and not having enough teams would defeat the whole purpose.
Title: Re: NON-WFTDA referee certification information
Post by: Noah Tall on October 07, 2011, 11:55:04 am
From WFTDA.com

Which games can I use when asking another league to fill out an evaluation card?

An evaluation card must be written by a WFTDA member league that participated in either a WFTDA Regulation or Sanctioned Bout:

    * A WFTDA Sanctioned Bout is a WFTDA interleague bout between two chartered teams that will count towards the leagues’ rankings.
    * A WFTDA Regulation Bout is between two WFTDA leagues that follows all current WFTDA rules but does not count towards the leagues’ rankings.
    * A bout between WFTDA Apprentice leagues or between a WFTDA League team and an Apprentice League team. Intraleague bouts between teams from the same WFTDA Member League do not count.
Title: Re: NON-WFTDA referee certification information
Post by: SeerSin on October 07, 2011, 01:24:19 pm
There's a much easier way to receive evaluations : as others have stated travel to nearby WFTDA or Apprentice league games. Work their bouts, get to know the skaters and referees there and request evaluations. Referees setting up a tournament "by the refs for the refs" is a little disturbing to me. The game is about the players, I don't see it working running a tournament only for the purposes of referee evaluations.

There are a number of tournaments already that are fantastic opportunities for evaluations. These tournaments already have a high participation from WFTDA teams who want to play. ECDX comes to mind. While I haven't reffed ECDX there are plenty of evaluations to be had. Clover Cup, Governor's Cup, Wild West Showdown, Spring Roll, and I know there's more. Many officials have attended these events for the purpose of learning from experienced referees and receiving evaluations. I realize evaluations can be hard to come by, harder for some because of geography. In those cases training hard and then going to an event like ECDX and performing well is an alternative to getting evaluations 1 game at a time.

And as Noah stated a bout between two Apprentice Leagues is a Regulation bout, assuming all WFTDA Rules are followed.
Title: Re: NON-WFTDA referee certification information
Post by: James Harper on October 07, 2011, 01:43:51 pm
Ok, so other than the big five what is the easiest way to locate the tournaments being held. I have made great strides in traveling to WFTDA leagues and learning so much. As all WFTDA refs have stated it costs, but the benefits out weigh the costs and time commitment. Even if you can only travel once a month or once every 6 months. The most important thing is be willing to be educated and take notes (if you are watching and not refereeing). AS stated previously, make contact with leagues as far as your budget will let you go and be willing to NSO or be an alternate to let them get to know you. I have learned more in the last 6 months than I have in my 4 years as a referee.

A quick thank you to the leagues and referees (no names to keep you from receiving a flood of emails, you know who you are) that have helped guide me thus far and I look forward to working with many more. I am testing for WFTDA this weekend..skating and written....nervous but excited. Next step is more evals :)
Title: Re: NON-WFTDA referee certification information
Post by: Bishop on October 07, 2011, 01:49:32 pm
Ok, so other than the big five what is the easiest way to locate the tournaments being held. I have made great strides in traveling to WFTDA leagues and learning so much. As all WFTDA refs have stated it costs, but the benefits out weigh the costs and time commitment. Even if you can only travel once a month or once every 6 months. The most important thing is be willing to be educated and take notes (if you are watching and not refereeing). AS stated previously, make contact with leagues as far as your budget will let you go and be willing to NSO or be an alternate to let them get to know you. I have learned more in the last 6 months than I have in my 4 years as a referee.

A quick thank you to the leagues and referees (no names to keep you from receiving a flood of emails, you know who you are) that have helped guide me thus far and I look forward to working with many more. I am testing for WFTDA this weekend..skating and written....nervous but excited. Next step is more evals :)

Good luck with your assessments!  Be aware that how many times you take the cert rules test is recorded on the evaluation sheet.  I don't know for certain that it's held against you if it takes you multilpe tries to pass.  However, it would make sense that they would.
Title: Re: NON-WFTDA referee certification information
Post by: reflmao on October 07, 2011, 02:43:38 pm
Be aware that how many times you take the cert rules test is recorded on the evaluation sheet.

But also...   It's a hard test and I know of only a few people who pass on their first time.
 
Title: Re: NON-WFTDA referee certification information
Post by: James Harper on October 07, 2011, 02:49:05 pm
Thanks all. This is round two for the written and first for skating...:\
Title: Re: NON-WFTDA referee certification information
Post by: Bishop on October 07, 2011, 02:52:59 pm
Be aware that how many times you take the cert rules test is recorded on the evaluation sheet.

But also...   It's a hard test and I know of only a few people who pass on their first time.
 

And ZH is an awesome place to study for it!  At least that's what I credit to my passing the test on the first attempt on two different versions of the test.   ;)

As you study the rules, Q & A's, Publications and Officiating Manual, write down every question that you have that you can't find an good answer for.  Then search on ZH for the answer. If it's not here then post your question. 
Title: Re: NON-WFTDA referee certification information
Post by: fiona poppins on October 07, 2011, 05:04:59 pm
There's a much easier way to receive evaluations : as others have stated travel to nearby WFTDA or Apprentice league games. Work their bouts, get to know the skaters and referees there and request evaluations. Referees setting up a tournament "by the refs for the refs" is a little disturbing to me. The game is about the players, I don't see it working running a tournament only for the purposes of referee evaluations.

There are a number of tournaments already that are fantastic opportunities for evaluations. These tournaments already have a high participation from WFTDA teams who want to play. ECDX comes to mind. While I haven't reffed ECDX there are plenty of evaluations to be had. Clover Cup, Governor's Cup, Wild West Showdown, Spring Roll, and I know there's more. Many officials have attended these events for the purpose of learning from experienced referees and receiving evaluations. I realize evaluations can be hard to come by, harder for some because of geography. In those cases training hard and then going to an event like ECDX and performing well is an alternative to getting evaluations 1 game at a time.

And as Noah stated a bout between two Apprentice Leagues is a Regulation bout, assuming all WFTDA Rules are followed.

i think you misunderstand me our league is just forming and learning. as there ref i want to help them grow and be competive on a national level . if i do not call the game the same way as it would be called during a  regulation or sanctioned bout then i put them at a disadvantage. and i agree it is about the skaters but a ref staff who understands the game correctly can only help.  what i mean by by the refs for the refs is certification is something we have to earn our selves. my education as a ref has mostly been an Independent study sort of thing . i watch and ask questions of my other staff no of who are certified or have been doing this for very long . sometimes they tell me wrong. this sight has been amazing and i try to take full advantage.  as a ref this tournament could help me to learn to do it right the first time and provide the networking i need to continue on the path for my certification. it would be a chance for me to prove myself or fall on my face and get back up to learn the better way.   
  the closest tournament i found to me is in texas or california. the number of sanctioned and regulation bouts is less with in a five state radius there are only 12 teams who belong to the wftda league.   I am already looking for a mentor and will begin with the nso route for certification. but some ref have said that it is better to have twice as many evals that wftda ask for  when you apply i am not even sure that there are that many approved bouts in my five state radius.  of the 12 teams in my five state radius less then half of them have certified ref staff for me to mentor with. i am a solver and when i set my mind to something i find a path to get it done.   any tournament can be a learning experience. but the masters tourny could be a celebration of a difficult job done well and taught well be those who do it the best.  i want to learn from the best to be my best. I thought other refs  would understand.
Title: Re: NON-WFTDA referee certification information
Post by: Professor Murder on October 08, 2011, 01:22:25 am
Good luck with your assessments!  Be aware that how many times you take the cert rules test is recorded on the evaluation sheet.  I don't know for certain that it's held against you if it takes you multilpe tries to pass.  However, it would make sense that they would.

Like anything else, it is taken into account in the broader context of the overall Certification application.  It is a factor, but it's one of the less significant factors to be sure.

While I haven't reffed ECDX

This is criminal.  You need to change that.  June 22-23-24, 2012.
Title: Re: NON-WFTDA referee certification information
Post by: Noah Tall on October 08, 2011, 02:28:28 am
Yeah, it took me three times to pass.  I was thisclose to passing the other two times, but only on the second time did I have anyone to go over the test with me to explain what I got wrong.  Having someone who has taken the test and can explain your mistakes makes a big difference in your retake score. :) 
Title: Re: NON-WFTDA referee certification information
Post by: SeerSin on October 08, 2011, 02:02:55 pm
While I haven't reffed ECDX

This is criminal.  You need to change that.  June 22-23-24, 2012.

I'm on it, I'm going to try to make it for 2012.
Title: Re: NON-WFTDA referee certification information
Post by: The Gorram Reaver on October 09, 2011, 04:34:41 am
i think you misunderstand me our league is just forming and learning. as there ref i want to help them grow and be competive on a national level . if i do not call the game the same way as it would be called during a  regulation or sanctioned bout then i put them at a disadvantage. and i agree it is about the skaters but a ref staff who understands the game correctly can only help.  what i mean by by the refs for the refs is certification is something we have to earn our selves. my education as a ref has mostly been an Independent study sort of thing . i watch and ask questions of my other staff no of who are certified or have been doing this for very long . sometimes they tell me wrong. this sight has been amazing and i try to take full advantage.  as a ref this tournament could help me to learn to do it right the first time and provide the networking i need to continue on the path for my certification. it would be a chance for me to prove myself or fall on my face and get back up to learn the better way.   
  the closest tournament i found to me is in texas or california. the number of sanctioned and regulation bouts is less with in a five state radius there are only 12 teams who belong to the wftda league.   I am already looking for a mentor and will begin with the nso route for certification. but some ref have said that it is better to have twice as many evals that wftda ask for  when you apply i am not even sure that there are that many approved bouts in my five state radius.  of the 12 teams in my five state radius less then half of them have certified ref staff for me to mentor with. i am a solver and when i set my mind to something i find a path to get it done.   any tournament can be a learning experience. but the masters tourny could be a celebration of a difficult job done well and taught well be those who do it the best.  i want to learn from the best to be my best. I thought other refs  would understand.
Fiona, I think we both understand your desire to learn & improve as well as sympathize with your current lack of resources.  We have all been there at some point in the past.  However, it's important to understand that we are also aware of the workings of the present system for becoming a certified official, and are aware of the challenges working within that system presents.  One of the most important things to keep in mind is that WFTDA has always been an organization operated under the principle of "by the skaters, for the skaters".  Attempting to draw leagues to a tournament "by the refs, for the refs" will likely meet with lukewarm interest at best from any teams that are WFTDA-affiliated.  You've already seen that support among the refs who work within that community and respect it's boundaries and guiding principles may not be as enthusiastic about the idea of such a tournament as you would like.

I don't mean to discourage you from attempting to organize a tournament.  It would be wonderful if you did so.  However, I expect you will have much better success with hosting such an event, which will ultimately lead to better success in your goal of providing an opportunity for officials to network, grow, and learn, if you do not approach it from the "for the officials" angle.
Title: Re: NON-WFTDA referee certification information
Post by: Betty Bruises on October 09, 2011, 07:55:57 am
I'm fortunate enough to have a WFTDA league with certified refs nearby and have worked with and asked about this. Some of the other things you may want to keep in mind are as mentioned you have to be willing to travel and tournaments are one of the best ways to get the most bang out of your buck so to speak.
As an official from a non-WFTDA league you really want to get a lot of evals in. Those evals and your test results wil then be gone over by the certification committee which to my understanding, consists of 5 people. In order to get certified you have to get unanimous approval based on your results from all 5 committee members, and as a member of a crew affiliated with a WFTDA league you only need a majority of 3 or more. If you have several positive evals from well respected WFTDA certified officials and officials that are already part of the "tournament circuit", the odds of those committee members feeling comfortable about issuing that certification and knowing that your abilities are up to WFTDA standards will be much higher.
Title: Re: NON-WFTDA referee certification information
Post by: SeerSin on October 09, 2011, 03:43:08 pm
In order to get certified you have to get unanimous approval based on your results from all 5 committee members, and as a member of a crew affiliated with a WFTDA league you only need a majority of 3 or more.

Not so, WFTDA affiliated and non-WFTDA affiliated officials are on equal footing and require 3 of 5 votes in order to receive certification.

http://wftda.com/officiating/certification-faq#Q11
Title: Re: NON-WFTDA referee certification information
Post by: HIM-roid on October 09, 2011, 05:13:37 pm
That is great news for us Non-WFTDA affiliated league refs. I know the last time I looked at certification, which has been awhile, the requirement was 5 out of 5 approvals for non-WFTDA leagues. Things are looking up. @Fiona, as Betty said, the willingness to travel is a great help, but it really boils down to other leagues needing referees for bouts. It took me awhile to be asked to ref a bout outside of my affiliated teams bouts. You will be surprised as to how many other teams skaters are in the crowd watching a particular bout. I have been fortunate enough to have reffed 24 bouts in less than a year. Most of this was because of nearby and sometimes far off, leagues needed refs and me being able to travel. I too strive for certification but I know that I am not ready to be considered with only a year into this. Just because you aren't certified, doesn't mean you aren't a great ref, it just means you haven't been certified by WFTDA. I truly believe it takes quite a bit more time to really be proficient in it. I also have tapped into local leagues refs for advice as well as refs on here and that has gained me much more knowledge than just reading the rule book. I was told by a certified ref when I started on here to NSO as many bouts as possible if you can't ref them. The exposure and networking will do you good. I am not sure when the next WFTDA ref clinic is going to be for next year, but I highly recommend you attend one. It was great learning impact and get clarification from a level 5 and level 3 certified ref. Hang in there and if you go on vacation somewhere, check in advance if there is a league close by and see if they mind if you come practice with them. Best of Luck.
Title: Re: NON-WFTDA referee certification information
Post by: Betty Bruises on October 09, 2011, 06:24:00 pm
In order to get certified you have to get unanimous approval based on your results from all 5 committee members, and as a member of a crew affiliated with a WFTDA league you only need a majority of 3 or more.

Not so, WFTDA affiliated and non-WFTDA affiliated officials are on equal footing and require 3 of 5 votes in order to receive certification.

http://wftda.com/officiating/certification-faq#Q11

Oh :) Good to know!!! Thanks for the correction!
Title: Re: NON-WFTDA referee certification information
Post by: James Harper on October 11, 2011, 01:30:46 pm
Just wanted to give a quick thank you to the Zebrahuddle staff and those referees that have allowed me to sit in ref meetings, NSO and referee along side you.....step one down...WFTDA written...passed :)   Now for some travel and evaluations haha....

and a question....evaluations are accepted from the head referee and captains of wftda regulated or sanctioned bouts? Do all three of these (if accepted) count as 1 or more than 1. I am not going to submit my application till I have as many as possible within a reasonable amount of time. Just curious as to the count.
Title: Re: NON-WFTDA referee certification information
Post by: SeerSin on October 11, 2011, 05:50:43 pm
Yes, the bout Head Referee and both teams may submit evaluations on officials for WFTDA Sanctioned or Regulation bouts. So you can receive up to three evaluations for one game if you are not affiliated with either league playing and the head ref is not from your affiliated league. So in theory you can meet the minimum requirement for evaluations from one game. Of course that's not ideal.

Note : It does not have to be the Team Captain who submits the evaluation. It is an "Authorized League Representative". Who that is and how it's decided is up to the skaters. Teams often appoint a skater not playing in the game to observe and fill out the evaluations. It's also good for skaters to get feedback from various team members for the evaluations.
Title: Re: NON-WFTDA referee certification information
Post by: Yvel Saint Laurent on October 11, 2011, 08:39:35 pm
I note that for the initial levels (1 & 2), a letter of recommendation is not required as it is for levels 4 & 5 - could a letter be submitted for consideration by a new applicant at level 1/2 to support their application anyway?
Title: Re: NON-WFTDA referee certification information
Post by: SeerSin on October 11, 2011, 08:51:02 pm
I note that for the initial levels (1 & 2), a letter of recommendation is not required as it is for levels 4 & 5 - could a letter be submitted for consideration by a new applicant at level 1/2 to support their application anyway?

Absolutely.
Title: Re: NON-WFTDA referee certification information
Post by: Rumspringa on October 15, 2011, 05:50:41 pm
I recently moved to Puerto Rico after skating with the river city roller girls (east). And one of the leagues here is trying for the apprentice program by getting their recommendation letter from the Dixie roller girls( south central?).

In my mind Puerto Rico would be east coast region but its not stated. So who would I send my certification info to?

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk
Title: Re: NON-WFTDA referee certification information
Post by: SeerSin on October 16, 2011, 01:27:59 am
Go ahead and send it to refcert_southcentral@wftda.com, we'll work it out from there. Worst that happens is I forward your paperwork to the East Rep.
Title: Re: NON-WFTDA referee certification information
Post by: James Harper on November 17, 2011, 02:24:42 pm
Hi all reviving this thread:  ;D

Good Morning All,


As we come to a close on the current season of roller derby and we all plan our schedules for next year, I would like to take the opportunity to thank everyone I have worked with. Your guidance and willingness to help someone learn has helped me grow more these last 6 months than I have in the last 3 years. I am grateful most of us have made it through without injury or incident.

That being said as I continue my education and development I am seeking evaluations towards WFTDA certification. My written and skating have been submitted and am on the hunt for evaluations.

As most of you know I don’t mind travel and have a pretty open schedule as long as I have a week or two notice. I also ask nothing in return except to gain the experience and potential for evaluations.

That being said, as you staff your WFTDA bouts ( home or away) and openings are available please take me into consideration. Some of you I have refereed with other I have NSO’d for and others I am looking forward to working with.

Savannah has begun the process of seeking WFTDA apprenticeship and I had already begun seeking to further myself as a referee in this great sport since July. Hopefully next year we will continue to grow and learn from one another.

I will gladly send a ref resume to anyone requesting it.

Thanks and  I look forward to another year of derby,

Hey Wood

Title: Re: NON-WFTDA referee certification information
Post by: matt adore on November 28, 2011, 02:41:59 pm
Yes, the bout Head Referee and both teams may submit evaluations on officials for WFTDA Sanctioned or Regulation bouts. So you can receive up to three evaluations for one game if you are not affiliated with either league playing and the head ref is not from your affiliated league. So in theory you can meet the minimum requirement for evaluations from one game. Of course that's not ideal.

Note : It does not have to be the Team Captain who submits the evaluation. It is an "Authorized League Representative". Who that is and how it's decided is up to the skaters. Teams often appoint a skater not playing in the game to observe and fill out the evaluations. It's also good for skaters to get feedback from various team members for the evaluations.

So just for clarification does this representative need to be someone that that the league designates as a referee evaluator or just one of their designated WFTDA reps?
Title: Re: NON-WFTDA referee certification information
Post by: The Gorram Reaver on November 28, 2011, 03:13:11 pm
So just for clarification does this representative need to be someone that that the league designates as a referee evaluator or just one of their designated WFTDA reps?

This can be anyone designated by the league to fill out the evaluation.  It does not need to be a WFTDA rep, and it does not need to be the same person every bout.