Zebra Huddle™

WFTDA => Hypothetical Rules Discussion => Topic started by: Destructor on November 23, 2015, 12:02:19 pm

Title: Is possible to one jammer do it one "Out of play Block"?
Post by: Destructor on November 23, 2015, 12:02:19 pm
Hi!

I saw in one bout, call on one jammer "Out of play Block" but, i can't understand who can do it one "out of play" if Glosary said: [rule]"In Play: When a Blocker is in bounds and upright within the Engagement Zone, the Blocker is in play. Jammers are always in play (so long as they are in bounds and upright)."[/rule]

PD: Sorry for my English.
Title: Re: Is possible to one jammer do it one "Out of play Block"?
Post by: Stray Taco on November 23, 2015, 12:07:08 pm
A jammer can be penalized for initiating an out of play block if she blocks an out of play blocker:
[rule]5.10.3 - No Skater may initiate a block while out of play, or to a Skater who is out of play. It is, however, legal to counter-block in such a situation.[/rule] (Emphasis mine.)
Title: Re: Is possible to one jammer do it one "Out of play Block"?
Post by: Destructor on November 23, 2015, 12:32:32 pm
But this point is an "indication", no is one "penalization". It is not in penalization's seccion "penalty" and no appear in verbal cues document.
Title: Re: Is possible to one jammer do it one "Out of play Block"?
Post by: Axis of Stevil on November 23, 2015, 12:42:10 pm
But this point is an "indication", no is one "penalization". It is not in penalization's seccion "penalty" and no appear in verbal cues document.

I am not certain what you mean.  Perhaps write it in Spanish and I'll translate as best I can?

Stray Taco is correct.  If a jammer initiates a block with high impact against an out of play blocker (either outside of the engagement zone or during a no pack scenario) the jammer receives an "out of play block"  penalty.
Title: Re: Is possible to one jammer do it one "Out of play Block"?
Post by: Destructor on November 23, 2015, 03:37:56 pm
Ok! I write in spanish:

"Ese punto, 5.10.3, parece una indicación, no un penalti como los que aparecen en la sección de "Penalty" y los que están en el documento de advertencias verbales. ¿Qué penalty se le asigna? Los penaltis del 5.10.11 al 5.10.19 están recogidos en el documento "wftda-officiating-verbal-cues" pero, ninguno cumple los requisitos para que una jammer cumpla un Out of play Block."

5.10.3 It's not included in "wftda-officiating-verbal-cues". No is a penalty, is a "suggestion".  What "penalty" (incluided in penalty headland) meets the requirements to indicate that penalty to a jammer?

I wish write better english but... :(
   
Title: Re: Is possible to one jammer do it one "Out of play Block"?
Post by: Divide by Zero on November 23, 2015, 03:49:45 pm
You are correct that there is no explicit mention in the penalty section of initiating contact to a skater that is out of play. However keep in mind that the actions listed under penalties is not an exhaustive list of everything that should be penalized, they are guidelines. Initiating contact to a skater that is out of play should be penalized (assuming impact).
Title: Re: Is possible to one jammer do it one "Out of play Block"?
Post by: Stray Taco on November 23, 2015, 03:50:19 pm
5.10.3 It's not included in "wftda-officiating-verbal-cues". No is a penalty, is a "suggestion".  What "penalty" (incluided in penalty headland) meets the requirements to indicate that penalty to a jammer?

I would call it under one of the following, based on whose relative position changed:
[rule]5.10.16 - Any illegal blocking while out of play that forces the receiving opponent out of their established position. This includes forcing an opponent down, out of bounds, or out of relative position.

5.10.17 - Any illegal blocking while out of play that allows the initiator or a teammate to gain relative position.[/rule]

I do think the rule is somewhat confusing in its wording, but when combined with 5.10.3, I take the intent of "while out of play" to refer to either the initiator or the target.

I wish write better english but... :(
I wish I could still read Spanish with some fluency!  ::)
Title: Re: Is possible to one jammer do it one "Out of play Block"?
Post by: Destructor on November 23, 2015, 04:31:59 pm
5.10.3 It's not included in "wftda-officiating-verbal-cues". No is a penalty, is a "suggestion".  What "penalty" (incluided in penalty headland) meets the requirements to indicate that penalty to a jammer?

I would call it under one of the following, based on whose relative position changed:
[rule]5.10.16 - Any illegal blocking while out of play that forces the receiving opponent out of their established position. This includes forcing an opponent down, out of bounds, or out of relative position.

5.10.17 - Any illegal blocking while out of play that allows the initiator or a teammate to gain relative position.[/rule]

I do think the rule is somewhat confusing in its wording, but when combined with 5.10.3, I take the intent of "while out of play" to refer to either the initiator or the target.

That's is the problem, jammer never "Out of play" then could be block skaters in out of play.

Correct explanation:
5.10.16 - Any illegal blocking while out of play, initiator or receiver, that forces the receiving opponent out of their established position. This includes forcing an opponent down, out of bounds, or out of relative position.

I wish write better english but... :(
I wish I could still read Spanish with some fluency!  ::)

But at less we can undestand us. ^^

Thx for help! I know it now that's jammer can do it but in rules text no enough correctly concrete.
Title: Re: Is possible to one jammer do it one "Out of play Block"?
Post by: Axis of Stevil on November 24, 2015, 01:34:57 am
Ok! I write in spanish:

"Ese punto, 5.10.3, parece una indicación, no un penalti como los que aparecen en la sección de "Penalty" y los que están en el documento de advertencias verbales. ¿Qué penalty se le asigna? Los penaltis del 5.10.11 al 5.10.19 están recogidos en el documento "wftda-officiating-verbal-cues" pero, ninguno cumple los requisitos para que una jammer cumpla un Out of play Block."

5.10.3 It's not included in "wftda-officiating-verbal-cues". No is a penalty, is a "suggestion".  What "penalty" (incluided in penalty headland) meets the requirements to indicate that penalty to a jammer?

I wish write better english but... :(

I understand your confusion.  You know 5.10.3 says that a jammer cannot block an out of play skater.  But you do not see a good rule between 5.10.11 and 5.10.19 to call the penalty.

As others are writing, the correct penalty is 5.10.17.  It could be better written, but the understanding is this: "Any illegal blocking while the initiator or the target are out of play..."

The correct verbal cue is "out of play block".

From your last message you understand this now, so I'm glad you now understand.  Happy officiating!