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Older Rulesets => 3.x Rules => General Ref Discussion 3.x => Topic started by: Three Majors on January 22, 2009, 07:56:00 pm

Title: 9.1.2 Protective Gear
Post by: Three Majors on January 22, 2009, 07:56:00 pm
How do you all judge safety pads.

What I really mean is would you allow the padded elbow gaskets for a bout or would it be only pads with a protective cap.

Would you even allow gaskets for practice?

I ask because our league like most of them in the UK is under 2  years old so the girls are on their first set of pads, but are looking to upgrade. They seem to spend  a bit on knee pads, but some are going for the gaskets for their elbows as an upgrade, but cheaper alternative to high impact pad (despite maybe only saving $5)
Title: Re: 9.1.2 Protective Gear
Post by: DayGlo Divine on January 22, 2009, 08:01:26 pm
How do you all judge safety pads.

What I really mean is would you allow the padded elbow gaskets for a bout or would it be only pads with a protective cap.

Would you even allow gaskets for practice?

I ask because our league like most of them in the UK is under 2  years old so the girls are on their first set of pads, but are looking to upgrade. They seem to spend  a bit on knee pads, but some are going for the gaskets for their elbows as an upgrade, but cheaper alternative to high impact pad (despite maybe only saving $5)

Why don't they just use their old elbow pads with their new knee pads?  ???
Title: Re: 9.1.2 Protective Gear
Post by: Three Majors on January 22, 2009, 08:08:29 pm
Possibly wasn't clear, I'm not saying they are replacing all at one, I skate with new knee pads and my old elbow pads. I'm just wanting to know that if someone says I'm going to upgrade my elbow pads for gaskets, should I as a ref be saying, great go for it, or should I be saying well OK, but hang on to the old ones and take them to bouts as some Refs do not rate gaskets as complying with 9.1.2.

Also the old pads may ahve gone to the great dumpster in the sky after eating too much track, that said, not seen many folk go down on their elbows.
Title: Re: 9.1.2 Protective Gear
Post by: DayGlo Divine on January 22, 2009, 08:16:40 pm
Possibly wasn't clear, I'm not saying they are replacing all at one, I skate with new knee pads and my old elbow pads. I'm just wanting to know that if someone says I'm going to upgrade my elbow pads for gaskets, should I as a ref be saying, great go for it, or should I be saying well OK, but hang on to the old ones and take them to bouts as some Refs do not rate gaskets as complying with 9.1.2.

Also the old pads may ahve gone to the great dumpster in the sky after eating too much track, that said, not seen many folk go down on their elbows.

Different leagues seem to have different standards for acceptable protective gear, but I haven't met anyone who thinks gaskets are sufficient.
Title: Re: 9.1.2 Protective Gear
Post by: Three Majors on January 22, 2009, 08:27:50 pm
Thanks! That's how I would call it, but want to know how others would call it, before I have to.
Title: Re: 9.1.2 Protective Gear
Post by: Riff Reff on January 22, 2009, 08:50:32 pm
we are a very young league also.. I haven't seen any of our girls using those things... maybe for practice but I wouldn't allow them for bouts!
Title: Re: 9.1.2 Protective Gear
Post by: Major Wood on January 22, 2009, 08:54:02 pm
I would not allow a skater to play if she were wearing gaskets in place of a pad with a hard shell.
Title: Re: 9.1.2 Protective Gear
Post by: Jessticular Fortitude on January 22, 2009, 08:58:35 pm
Personally, I don't think they should even be practicing without the hard shell. Part of the protection is the ability to slide on them so you're not feeling the full force. I doubt the cloth would slide enough to do much to lessen the impact.
Title: Re: 9.1.2 Protective Gear
Post by: DayGlo Divine on January 22, 2009, 08:59:40 pm
Personally, I don't think they should even be practicing without the hard shell. Part of the protection is the ability to slide on them so you're not feeling the full force. I doubt the cloth would slide enough to do much to lessen the impact.

+1
Title: Re: 9.1.2 Protective Gear
Post by: Darkjester on January 22, 2009, 10:27:27 pm
I'm not sure about what a 'gasket' is. I'm picturing like a lycra sleeve more like a knee or elbow brace than actual padding.

I think WFTDA might want in their next rules edition to post "Hard covered" padding, or people will wear Volleyball/Soccer pads and try to clear them as protective equipment because its not covered.
Title: Re: 9.1.2 Protective Gear
Post by: JoeXCore on January 22, 2009, 10:49:59 pm
At Scattered Smothered and Southern a skater was wearing the front half of a helmet and had very large dreads at back.
The skater approached Paul Bearer and he referred the question of "is it okay" to me since I was the head ref of the scrimmage.

I said that was not in fact a helmet and she didn't get to skate in the scrimmage... she said this had been allowed in WFTDA bouts from her past.
Title: Re: 9.1.2 Protective Gear
Post by: Rev. Riot on January 22, 2009, 11:28:59 pm
At Scattered Smothered and Southern a skater was wearing the front half of a helmet and had very large dreads at back.
The skater approached Paul Bearer and he referred the question of "is it okay" to me since I was the head ref of the scrimmage.

I said that was not in fact a helmet and she didn't get to skate in the scrimmage... she said this had been allowed in WFTDA bouts from her past.

I have NEVER heard of that being allowed in any WFTDA bout. Not even close. At the big three tournaments this year we allowed ONE modified piece of equipment, a skater who'd had the holes on the helmet drilled out wide enough to fit her pony-tails through. And had then had it re-enforced and inspected to ensure that it had not lost it's original integrity. She had the engineering documents to prove it. Beyond that, no allowances for modifications.

However, as the rules DO NOT say what brand or specifically which type of pads need to be worn, it's ultimately at the skater's risk, since it's not anyone else's risk. I don't let them play with chipped or broken pads, because those won't function as designed, but if the pad never had a hard shell to begin with, well...
Title: Re: 9.1.2 Protective Gear
Post by: Professor Murder on January 23, 2009, 01:04:33 am
if the pad never had a hard shell to begin with, well...

the skater would find out pretty bloody fast what a terribly painful waste of money they were?
Title: Re: 9.1.2 Protective Gear
Post by: Matt the Knife on January 23, 2009, 01:12:17 am
I was always under the impression the gaskets were designed for under pads, as an extra to the hard shell-ed pads. Some of our girls wear them due to past knee bruises for extra protection under the "real" pads, but as Darkjester guessed above, they aren't much actual protection alone, I wouldn't allow them as the sole protection for a bout, and I'd be very skeptical about practice without them.
Title: Re: 9.1.2 Protective Gear
Post by: DayGlo Divine on January 23, 2009, 02:24:00 am
if the pad never had a hard shell to begin with, well...

the skater would find out pretty bloody fast what a terribly painful waste of money they were?

I've heard that these elbow pads, which have no hard shell but instead harden on impact, are really good:

http://blackeyedsusanskateshop.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=2_22&products_id=91

Of course, they're also really expensive, but they're still cheaper than medical bills.
Title: Re: 9.1.2 Protective Gear
Post by: Jessticular Fortitude on January 23, 2009, 04:39:12 pm
I've heard that these elbow pads, which have no hard shell but instead harden on impact, are really good:

http://blackeyedsusanskateshop.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=2_22&products_id=91

Of course, they're also really expensive, but they're still cheaper than medical bills.

So they've started making pads out of wet cornstarch? Awesome. Let's make cookies!
Title: Re: 9.1.2 Protective Gear
Post by: DayGlo Divine on January 23, 2009, 04:41:40 pm
I've heard that these elbow pads, which have no hard shell but instead harden on impact, are really good:

http://blackeyedsusanskateshop.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=2_22&products_id=91

Of course, they're also really expensive, but they're still cheaper than medical bills.

So they've started making pads out of wet cornstarch? Awesome. Let's make cookies!

I don't know that I'd want to make cookies with anything that can be found in a knee or elbow pad. :P
Title: Re: 9.1.2 Protective Gear
Post by: Darkjester on January 23, 2009, 10:12:47 pm
Those pads also have a Kevlar front to protect from abrasion, which Kevlar can also be pretty rigid, though until I saw them in person (I can't afford $90 elbow pads) I can't completely make an assessment on them.

Title: Re: 9.1.2 Protective Gear
Post by: Poobah on January 24, 2009, 01:33:37 am
I was always under the impression the gaskets were designed for under pads, as an extra to the hard shell-ed pads.

This is true. Some feel they can serve to protect from *CL injuries as well, but I wouldn't know about that. Additionally, they serve to keep the hard pads in place.

We had a pro derby skater come out to join in a scrimmage, but wasn't allowed to skate because she had soft elbow pads. Apparently those kinds of leagues discourage the use of hard shell elbow pads.
Title: Re: 9.1.2 Protective Gear
Post by: Darkjester on January 24, 2009, 05:06:02 pm
Which type of 'pro' the Wrestling style "Pro derby' I could see it then, because the elbows they intentionally throw for the spectacle of it would be more dangerous with hard pads.
Title: Re: 9.1.2 Protective Gear
Post by: lets get it Shawn on May 20, 2009, 02:45:50 pm
well looks like 4.0 has us covered now

10.1.2.1 Wrist guards, elbow pads, knee pads and helmets must have a hard protective shell or inserts.
Title: Re: 9.1.2 Protective Gear
Post by: Poobah on June 23, 2009, 11:27:22 pm
Which type of 'pro' the Wrestling style "Pro derby' I could see it then, because the elbows they intentionally throw for the spectacle of it would be more dangerous with hard pads.

There's only one "pro derby" league out there that's currently putting on games. Regardless of all that, their rules are different, they have some legal forms of elbow use, which is pretty close I think to what was allowed at Battle on the Bank 2. Some kind of upper arm block or something. Not hitting someone with the point of the elbow. I think it's aimed more at accidentally hitting someone with the hard-shelled elbow pad.
Title: Re: 9.1.2 Protective Gear
Post by: hooligal on November 04, 2009, 02:01:13 pm
Those pads also have a Kevlar front to protect from abrasion, which Kevlar can also be pretty rigid, though until I saw them in person (I can't afford $90 elbow pads) I can't completely make an assessment on them.


Yet we've been told kevlar on anti gloves is no good (although I've found them better then any other wrist guard)

This is actualy the clarification/loophole I've been looking at, rule states 'hard protective shell OR insert' anti gloves have an insert, albiet on the top


edit: noticed this is 3x rules, but question still stands
Title: Re: 9.1.2 Protective Gear
Post by: noidd on November 04, 2009, 02:04:07 pm
You might want to post a new thread about it in the regular 4.x forums.