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Recent Posts

Re: OOP points by AdamSmasher
March 23, 2017, 03:08:49 pm

Re: OOP points by Speedy Convalesce
March 22, 2017, 07:23:08 pm

OOP points by EL-REFE
March 22, 2017, 05:33:20 pm

Re: How to treat refs nicely? by Stray Taco
March 22, 2017, 02:04:03 pm

How to treat refs nicely? by ButtBlock_36
March 14, 2017, 11:55:37 am

Re: 4.1 missing something? by llama of death
March 14, 2017, 01:12:52 am

Re: Jammer Lap Points Graphic by AdamSmasher
March 13, 2017, 09:47:39 pm

Re: 2017 Rules: Unexpected changes by Major Wood
March 13, 2017, 07:29:54 pm

Re: Jammer Lap Points Graphic by Stray Taco
March 13, 2017, 04:34:30 pm

Re: Jammer Lap Points Graphic by Vanilla VICE
March 13, 2017, 04:32:25 pm

Recent Posts

Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 10
1
Hypothetical Rules Discussion / Re: OOP points
« Last post by AdamSmasher on March 23, 2017, 03:08:49 pm »
"No Opportunity" points are somewhat tricky beasts.  If a jammer completes their scoring trip by exiting the front engagement zone and the opposing blocker is out of play in front, then clearly that trip ended without a scoring opportunity.

I disagree with Speedy on what the letter of the rules say if the scoring trip ends for any other reason, however, as it's not cut and dried. (although I generally agree with his final result.)

If the scoring trip ends because the jam ends, by the letter of the rules, you have to decide - was there a denied opportunity for the jammer to pass that blocker?  If the jammer is one foot in front of the EZ on a new scoring trip, it's not sensible to say she's been denied a passing opportunity on that trip - it's just too soon.  That jammer had an entire lap to go on that trip, and there's no way to know what sort of opportunities would or would not have presented themselves. 

To put it another way - just because you *haven't* passed someone yet doesn't necessarily mean you don't have the opportunity to do so. And that's what "No Opportunity" points are for: situations without any opportunity.

Now the annoying fuzzy situations occur when the jammer is close to finishing a scoring trip and the jam ends.  At that point, discretion is required to determine if they truly have had no opportunities or not.  1 foot from ending the trip?  Probably award points.  10 feet from ending the trip? Meh? Use your discretion.
2
Hypothetical Rules Discussion / Re: OOP points
« Last post by Speedy Convalesce on March 22, 2017, 07:23:08 pm »
By the letter of the rules, this point is to be awarded even if the Jammer is just barely on their new scoring trip when the Jam ends. But most people (including everyone I discussed this with) consider this to be an unintended oversight and will require that the Jammer had an actual opportunity at scoring on their final trip in order to award this NOPP point. Since the 2015 rules used "in the pack" as a metric for this, most people simply continue to use that.
3
Hypothetical Rules Discussion / OOP points
« Last post by EL-REFE on March 22, 2017, 05:33:20 pm »
Let's say there is a blocker way out of play at the front of the engagement zone. The jammer will get that point obviously, but if the jam ends before that same OOP blocker makes it back to the engagement zone, will the jammer earn that point on their next scoring trip?

My point is does the jammer even have to be in the engagement zone or pack to earn that point on the OOP blocker when the jam is called off?
(started the next scoring trip, but not yet to the engagement zone)

4
General Ref Discussion / Re: How to treat refs nicely?
« Last post by Stray Taco on March 22, 2017, 02:04:03 pm »
You can probably get as many opinions on what officials consider good treatment as you'll get officials, but here is #myopinion which is #reallywordy because I have #lotsofthoughts:

First, the basic things "everybody" does:
  • Fun goodie bags/baskets in the ref room
  • Snacks and water for the refs
  • Skaters saying "Thank you" to the officials before and/or after the game
  • Team cheer including "Thank you refs, Thank you NSOs"
  • Gas stipends/gas cards for officials who travel to help (especially when not affiliated with any leagues involved)

I put "everybody" in quotes, because while not all teams do this, most do or at least something along these lines. These are nice, tangible ways to show appreciation. In other words, if you're doing them, don't stop (Especially the stipends if you can afford them. It costs a lot to travel somewhere to ref!). But the reality is that these are tokens. When I leave a game wanting to return at every opportunity, it's because I felt like I was a genuinely appreciated part of making a successful derby experience for everyone there. And when I swear I won't go back, it's because Officials are afterthoughts or worse, treated badly by the teams or coordinators (NOTE: This is VERY rare, and no I won't say where I've experienced it).

It's really about making me feel that I was a valued part of the event and that there was growth by being a part of it. Not necessarily that everybody was happy and got along perfectly, but that I was respected as a person and as an official.

So, what makes me feel valued and respected? Well...
  • Teaching Skaters to treat officials with basic, human respect. Disagreement on calls comes with the territory, but constant arguing of every call or treating refs like they're biased or don't know what they're doing because calls don't go your way can be frustrating. Refs have thick skin but if that behavior is expected every time your team is around it will factor in when there are multiple places to go skate.
  • Contacting me far enough ahead of a game to be able to plan appropriately (Of course, things happen, but there's a difference between "we lost someone at the last minute" and "we forgot about needing refs until this week".
  • If I'm the Head Ref (especially when I'm travelling), making sure I know who my contact is with the league, who my Head NSO is, and what's expected of me as far as filling the ref roster
  • If I'm the Head Ref, giving me the freedom to make rostering decisions, are at least communicate concerns and changes I'd like to make
  • Good information before the game about the venue, schedule, teams, and any unusual circumstances I should be aware of
  • Not telling me how horrible the other refs were that you've had before (in my experience, if you're talking bad about other people to me, that's a good sign you'll talk bad about me to other people
  • Ensuring all Officials (refs and NSOs) have what they need to successfully do their jobs. (stopwatches, colors for the Jammer Refs), etc.)
  • Working with the refs to know what you'll provide or they need to bring to ensure they're properly nourished and hydrated (water to refill bottles is critical, snacks that actually help with mid-game or inter-game recovery are also good).
  • Clearly communicating what's expected for evaluations, where applicable (some refs don't care, other refs care a LOT)
  • If evaluations are requested, sending them to Cert in a timely manner.
  • This won't necessarily be seen by the ref (unless you choose to provide a copy), but actually taking the time to provide a thought-out evaluation, as opposed to drawing a line down the right side with no real comments.

I'm sure others have other things, and everyone prioritizes differently, but that's my list :)
5
General Ref Discussion / How to treat refs nicely?
« Last post by ButtBlock_36 on March 14, 2017, 11:55:37 am »
I am a long time skater who recently took an interest in reffing. And it's a whole new exciting world that opens before me. I want to learn and master it all! (and this forum is helping me heaps btw - thanks for that) :D

But... as it seems it has been lacking for a long time in my league & I myself don't have the experience yet: what do refs like in terms of treatment? How can my league make refs like it? What do you consider best practices when visiting other leagues?
6
Rules Discussion / Re: 4.1 missing something?
« Last post by llama of death on March 14, 2017, 01:12:52 am »
@Derby Medic

to be succinct: Any direct conflicts from rule to casebook (and reverse) are errata and should be reported as such. In the mean time use your best judgment based on the entirety of the rules as a guide for "Correct interpretation" of which one is the error.
7
General Ref Discussion / Re: Jammer Lap Points Graphic
« Last post by AdamSmasher on March 13, 2017, 09:47:39 pm »
Yeah it not only works for Jammers still (at least I believe it still does), it works for blockers now also with the change from "you score on blockers when you pass them on your scoring pass" to "you score on blockers when you lap them" with the only caveat for blockers being if you hand a star cover over an opponent's wall that was never passed in an earned or unearned way, that still counts for lapping purposes.

The point of the "light" analogy for lapping position is to make the point that it is mutually exclusive - only one jammer (at most) can have lapping position on the other jammer at a time.  If Jammer A passes Jammer B, you turn A's light on, and turn B's light off.  This metaphor isn't terribly useful for blockers.
8
Rules Discussion / Re: 2017 Rules: Unexpected changes
« Last post by Major Wood on March 13, 2017, 07:29:54 pm »
WFTDA Rule/Clarification:
1.3.2. Official Reviews
...
 If the Head Referee determines that an officiating error was made in relation to the situation under review, the team will retain the privilege to call an additional review later in the same period. The review can be retained in this manner only once per period.
...


Now, OR only called 2 times per period? (If first time retain). Before, how many was called? (we used infinite while request was correct).  :o

As long as there has been the ability to retain a review, a review could only be retained once. Maximum of two ORs per team, per period.
I only started skating a year ago and I was always taught that you only retained the Official Review once per period (if successful on first one that period)  so I don't think that has changed.
9
General Ref Discussion / Re: Jammer Lap Points Graphic
« Last post by Stray Taco on March 13, 2017, 04:34:30 pm »
Yeah it not only works for Jammers still (at least I believe it still does), it works for blockers now also with the change from "you score on blockers when you pass them on your scoring pass" to "you score on blockers when you lap them" with the only caveat for blockers being if you hand a star cover over an opponent's wall that was never passed in an earned or unearned way, that still counts for lapping purposes.
Other caveat for blockers would be that the light doesn't turn off when a Blocker leaves the penalty box.

That's a LOT of lights, though!
10
General Ref Discussion / Re: Jammer Lap Points Graphic
« Last post by Vanilla VICE on March 13, 2017, 04:32:25 pm »
Yeah it not only works for Jammers still (at least I believe it still does), it works for blockers now also with the change from "you score on blockers when you pass them on your scoring pass" to "you score on blockers when you lap them" with the only caveat for blockers being if you hand a star cover over an opponent's wall that was never passed in an earned or unearned way, that still counts for lapping purposes.
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