1
General Ref Discussion / Re: A series of unfortunate events
« Last post by Vanilla VICE on June 26, 2017, 09:56:31 pm »That is a busy jam, is there a question to go with this scenario?
Recent Posts
2
General Ref Discussion / A series of unfortunate events
« Last post by Joker on June 25, 2017, 01:21:42 pm »In a recent game I was HR for.
It all started with a simple Star pass.
First unfortunate act, the pivot recieving the star had inadvertantly stepped to the inside of the track just before recieving the star, thus Star Pass violation on the Jammer.
Now here's were things went downhill fast.
I verbally indicated to the Pivot "you are not the jammer". She removed the cover. However, at that point she stuffed the star cover into her uniform and skated the whole way around the track to re-enter the pack at the back.
During this time the jammer had been knocked out of play (to the inside) and down, when she got up and was heading across to the outside to leave the track, ended up cutting.
At that point the Pivot had re-entered from the back and returned the star cover to the Jammer, who then ALSO put the Cover into her uniform and both skated to the box.
As you may guess an Official Time out was called to make sure we had everything sorted out as the different calls came from different refs. I (HR) made the initial call on the star pass violation, Front IPR on the "star Stash" on the pivot, the JR on the Cut on the Jammer. an OPR on the "star Stash" on the Jammer".
Needless to say it was a bit of a confusing situation to explain to the coach . Oh ya, that team called an Official Review just to find out WTF happened. lol
It all started with a simple Star pass.
First unfortunate act, the pivot recieving the star had inadvertantly stepped to the inside of the track just before recieving the star, thus Star Pass violation on the Jammer.
Now here's were things went downhill fast.
I verbally indicated to the Pivot "you are not the jammer". She removed the cover. However, at that point she stuffed the star cover into her uniform and skated the whole way around the track to re-enter the pack at the back.
During this time the jammer had been knocked out of play (to the inside) and down, when she got up and was heading across to the outside to leave the track, ended up cutting.
At that point the Pivot had re-entered from the back and returned the star cover to the Jammer, who then ALSO put the Cover into her uniform and both skated to the box.
As you may guess an Official Time out was called to make sure we had everything sorted out as the different calls came from different refs. I (HR) made the initial call on the star pass violation, Front IPR on the "star Stash" on the pivot, the JR on the Cut on the Jammer. an OPR on the "star Stash" on the Jammer".
Needless to say it was a bit of a confusing situation to explain to the coach . Oh ya, that team called an Official Review just to find out WTF happened. lol
3
Rules Discussion / Re: Official Update on Jammer starting without a cover
« Last post by FNZebra on June 24, 2017, 11:53:27 pm »Quickly and easily is a relative thing.
Be glad there isn't a set of PDFs slowing things down more.
Be glad there isn't a set of PDFs slowing things down more.
4
Rules Discussion / Re: Official Update on Jammer starting without a cover
« Last post by Triop on June 24, 2017, 04:40:06 pm »At want point are they going to update the rules with all of these changes? I thought the entire point of splitting the rules up in to the mess that they are was so that edits could be done quickly and easily.
5
Rules Discussion / Official Update on Jammer starting without a cover
« Last post by AdamSmasher on June 23, 2017, 12:38:55 pm »This is an official, non-NDA update from the WFTDA rules committee. I am sharing it to get it out there, but as always, I do NOT speak for WFTDA in any official capacity. The original had changes highlighted in red, but that didn't come through in the cut-n-paste.
TL;DR - Both jammers must ALWAYS start the jam with a helmet cover visibly in their possession, or you don't start the jam.
2.2.1. Jammers
The Jammer is denoted as the Skater in visible possession of the Jammer helmet cover (a.k.a. “The Star”) at the beginning of the Jam.. If a Skater is serving a penalty as their team’s Jammer, no teammate may begin the Jam in possession of the Star or behind the Jammer Line. If there is neither a Skater serving a penalty as the Jammer nor a Skater with a visible Star, then the team has failed to field a Jammer for the upcoming Jam and will be penalized accordingly.
Unless they are serving a penalty, the Jammer must start the Jam on or behind the Jammer Line. Jammers may be stopped or coasting, but may not be actively gaining speed in the counterclockwise direction at the Jam-Starting Whistle.
[remainder of 2.2.1 unchanged]
Casebook 2.2.1 Header
"The Jammer is denoted as the Skater in visible possession of the Jammer helmet cover (a.k.a. “The Star”) at the beginning of the Jam."
[Scenario C2.7 deleted]
Scenario C2.8
Red and White Skaters repeatedly shift positions between Jams, attempting to gain position on one another. As the Jam starts, Red 34 is lined up fully behind the Jammer Line but is not wearing the Star, while Red 27 is lined up fully in front of the Jammer Line and is wearing the Star.
Outcome: Red 27 is the Jammer.
Rationale: Red 27 is the Skater in visible possession of the Star. The Star denotes who the Jammer is. Both Skaters should receive a penalty for beginning the Jam fully out of position.
Keep in Mind: Once the Jam starts, the Jammer Referee should communicate to Red 27 that they are the Jammer for this Jam. Since the rules do not accommodate for Jammers who forget their helmet cover, starting position should not take precedence over wearing the Star. In this case, both the Jammer (Red 27) and the Blocker (Red 34) have started the Jam in illegal starting positions.
Keep in Mind: Assume the following Jammer hierarchy.
1 The Jammer for the upcoming Jam is the Jammer from the previous Jam who is in the Penalty Box.
2 If no one satisfies 1, the Jammer is the Skater who visibly controls the Star who has lined up in the Jammer Starting Position.
3 If no one satisfies 2, the Jammer is the Skater who visibly controls the Star but who has lined up out of position.
4 If no one satisfies 3, there is no Jammer for that team in this Jam, and the Jam should not start.
[Additional cases removed from table above as obsolete]
(Update to) Scenario C4.45
As the lineup time expires, White team has four Blockers correctly positioned, but White Jammer is still out of bounds.
Outcome: Instead of starting the next Jam, at that moment, the Officials must call an Official Timeout.. White Captain is penalized.
Rationale: White team’s failure to field a Jammer in the correct position prevented the Jam from starting in a timely manner.
Keep in Mind: If Red Jammer, too, had been out of bounds, both Captains would have received a penalty for preventing the Jam from starting in a timely manner
Keep in Mind: If a White Skater had been correctly positioned as a Jammer but did not possess a visible Star, they are not the Jammer. Assuming the White team does not have a Jammer serving a penalty, White’s Captain would similarly receive a penalty for preventing the Jam from starting in a timely fashion.
TL;DR - Both jammers must ALWAYS start the jam with a helmet cover visibly in their possession, or you don't start the jam.
2.2.1. Jammers
The Jammer is denoted as the Skater in visible possession of the Jammer helmet cover (a.k.a. “The Star”) at the beginning of the Jam.. If a Skater is serving a penalty as their team’s Jammer, no teammate may begin the Jam in possession of the Star or behind the Jammer Line. If there is neither a Skater serving a penalty as the Jammer nor a Skater with a visible Star, then the team has failed to field a Jammer for the upcoming Jam and will be penalized accordingly.
Unless they are serving a penalty, the Jammer must start the Jam on or behind the Jammer Line. Jammers may be stopped or coasting, but may not be actively gaining speed in the counterclockwise direction at the Jam-Starting Whistle.
[remainder of 2.2.1 unchanged]
Casebook 2.2.1 Header
"The Jammer is denoted as the Skater in visible possession of the Jammer helmet cover (a.k.a. “The Star”) at the beginning of the Jam."
[Scenario C2.7 deleted]
Scenario C2.8
Red and White Skaters repeatedly shift positions between Jams, attempting to gain position on one another. As the Jam starts, Red 34 is lined up fully behind the Jammer Line but is not wearing the Star, while Red 27 is lined up fully in front of the Jammer Line and is wearing the Star.
Outcome: Red 27 is the Jammer.
Rationale: Red 27 is the Skater in visible possession of the Star. The Star denotes who the Jammer is. Both Skaters should receive a penalty for beginning the Jam fully out of position.
Keep in Mind: Once the Jam starts, the Jammer Referee should communicate to Red 27 that they are the Jammer for this Jam. Since the rules do not accommodate for Jammers who forget their helmet cover, starting position should not take precedence over wearing the Star. In this case, both the Jammer (Red 27) and the Blocker (Red 34) have started the Jam in illegal starting positions.
Keep in Mind: Assume the following Jammer hierarchy.
1 The Jammer for the upcoming Jam is the Jammer from the previous Jam who is in the Penalty Box.
2 If no one satisfies 1, the Jammer is the Skater who visibly controls the Star who has lined up in the Jammer Starting Position.
3 If no one satisfies 2, the Jammer is the Skater who visibly controls the Star but who has lined up out of position.
4 If no one satisfies 3, there is no Jammer for that team in this Jam, and the Jam should not start.
[Additional cases removed from table above as obsolete]
(Update to) Scenario C4.45
As the lineup time expires, White team has four Blockers correctly positioned, but White Jammer is still out of bounds.
Outcome: Instead of starting the next Jam, at that moment, the Officials must call an Official Timeout.. White Captain is penalized.
Rationale: White team’s failure to field a Jammer in the correct position prevented the Jam from starting in a timely manner.
Keep in Mind: If Red Jammer, too, had been out of bounds, both Captains would have received a penalty for preventing the Jam from starting in a timely manner
Keep in Mind: If a White Skater had been correctly positioned as a Jammer but did not possess a visible Star, they are not the Jammer. Assuming the White team does not have a Jammer serving a penalty, White’s Captain would similarly receive a penalty for preventing the Jam from starting in a timely fashion.
6
Rules Discussion / Re: Too Many Skaters 2017
« Last post by AdamSmasher on June 23, 2017, 12:36:10 pm »As I mentioned elsewhere - the overwhelming practice is to read the 2017 rules to say that you handle it just like the 2015 rules. An extra skater that affects gameplay is an issue that cannot be rectified merely by issuing penalties, so you call the jam, issue a "Too Many Skaters" penalty to whoever refused to leave, and restart with the correct number of skaters.
7
Rules Discussion / Too Many Skaters 2017
« Last post by llama of death on June 22, 2017, 05:45:13 pm »WFTDA 2017 rules are clear that the game is played with 4 blockers per team and a Jammer, and that flagrant [intentional? and obvious?] violations of the rules are to be met with a penalty.
'Too many skaters' had been a penalty of last resort for years now, preferring instead to just remove a skater from the track before it has impact.
WFTDA 2017 rules make no explicit mention of this call, and that is fine. It is still clearly a rules violation that needs to be fixed without penalty unless it is "flagrant." But who does the penalty go to now?
Team penalties are now uniformly assessed to the captain (during the next jam if they are not on the track at the time). Some team penalties mid jam are given to the offending skater -> the nearest skater (in that order of importance).
I am either missing something or this is a judgment call.
If it is judgment call how have other crews been handling situations where a penalty is needed? Say, a jammer gets lead as a direct result of having 5 blockers on their team at the linup, enough to hold the opposing jammer and play active O at the same time? (Clearly not everyone agrees with me on calling that as a penalty but after three loud clear warnings they are both ignoring the officials and gaining a direct advantage from an illegal status)
'Too many skaters' had been a penalty of last resort for years now, preferring instead to just remove a skater from the track before it has impact.
WFTDA 2017 rules make no explicit mention of this call, and that is fine. It is still clearly a rules violation that needs to be fixed without penalty unless it is "flagrant." But who does the penalty go to now?
Team penalties are now uniformly assessed to the captain (during the next jam if they are not on the track at the time). Some team penalties mid jam are given to the offending skater -> the nearest skater (in that order of importance).
I am either missing something or this is a judgment call.
If it is judgment call how have other crews been handling situations where a penalty is needed? Say, a jammer gets lead as a direct result of having 5 blockers on their team at the linup, enough to hold the opposing jammer and play active O at the same time? (Clearly not everyone agrees with me on calling that as a penalty but after three loud clear warnings they are both ignoring the officials and gaining a direct advantage from an illegal status)
8
General NSO Discussion / Re: Penalty/Line Up Combo
« Last post by AdamSmasher on June 13, 2017, 05:21:30 pm »There's a number of different approaches, and no official one. Some use modified paperwork, and some don't. The approach that was written out by Nine Inch Wheels from Rat City is available here.
It's got plusses and minuses.
On the plus side - lineup tracking is MUCH easier from the middle of the track. On the minus side, it is sometimes harder to keep caught up after penalty heavy jams. If you're using the 30 seconds to catch missed penalties, you're NOT marking down the lineups.
Like *any* modification to the penalty tracking system, the impact is wildly variable depending on how penalty heavy the game is. Everything works fine for a 20 penalty game. The stress test is how it behaves in a 105 penalty game. Also like any system - it works better the more experienced the operators.
It's got plusses and minuses.
On the plus side - lineup tracking is MUCH easier from the middle of the track. On the minus side, it is sometimes harder to keep caught up after penalty heavy jams. If you're using the 30 seconds to catch missed penalties, you're NOT marking down the lineups.
Like *any* modification to the penalty tracking system, the impact is wildly variable depending on how penalty heavy the game is. Everything works fine for a 20 penalty game. The stress test is how it behaves in a 105 penalty game. Also like any system - it works better the more experienced the operators.
9
General NSO Discussion / Penalty/Line Up Combo
« Last post by SteelMegnolia on June 12, 2017, 09:14:59 pm »I've heard this combo mentioned twice but am unsure how it is done. I'd like to use it in an upcoming bout. Anyone have experience and can break it down for me?
Thanks!
Thanks!
10
General Ref Discussion / Re: How to treat refs nicely?
« Last post by Ref Leppard on June 09, 2017, 12:41:21 am »I understand about the potential for negative evals and such. I have only been reffing since august of 2016. I have no unreasonable expectation of getting certified any time soon (even if cert was active). But in that 7 months I have racked up 35 total games I've refereed for. I know that's not a lot compared to some certified referees but I've learned a lot in that time (I still have a ways to go of course). Of those games only 4 have been sanctioned and I got lucky with a couple being a visiting team from canada getting a few bouts in while they were here. There are only 3 teams within 200 miles of me that are WFTDA affiliated. So evals from those games are even more important (granted we aren't sure they will be the same under whatever new system is put into place.)
After each of these games I have asked for any feedback that the HR wants to give. In almost every case it consists of you did a good job or one or two minor comments. This is then followed by no eval.
I guess my primary issue is this: If you (as a HR) are asked to provide an eval, then you should. You don't know how important that eval may be to that particular referee. If you want to help them out by not submitting a negative evaluation then you should explain this to them. I know not all will take it well but that is their problem. Otherwise you leave the referee hanging and not sure what to do.
Recently I've seen posts on the derby groups i'm in regarding a severe lack of referees. I've even seen several games in the area canceled due to a lack of referees. This has caused an appeal to leagues to encourage our referees. I would push this towards our certified referees as well. Encourage those trying for certification and help them where you can. It's sad when I see Level 3/4 Referees from a High ranking D1 league not seem to care about the referees in less populated areas. If our own WFTDA referees won't help, how can we expect the leagues to?
Edit: Re-reading this it kind of sounds like a "poor me" type response and I really don't mean it that way. I don't pretend to be awesome after only 35 games and I know I have more to learn. But it's frustrating that in the few times I have access to a WFTDA certified referee they give the appearance of not really giving a crap.
After each of these games I have asked for any feedback that the HR wants to give. In almost every case it consists of you did a good job or one or two minor comments. This is then followed by no eval.
I guess my primary issue is this: If you (as a HR) are asked to provide an eval, then you should. You don't know how important that eval may be to that particular referee. If you want to help them out by not submitting a negative evaluation then you should explain this to them. I know not all will take it well but that is their problem. Otherwise you leave the referee hanging and not sure what to do.
Recently I've seen posts on the derby groups i'm in regarding a severe lack of referees. I've even seen several games in the area canceled due to a lack of referees. This has caused an appeal to leagues to encourage our referees. I would push this towards our certified referees as well. Encourage those trying for certification and help them where you can. It's sad when I see Level 3/4 Referees from a High ranking D1 league not seem to care about the referees in less populated areas. If our own WFTDA referees won't help, how can we expect the leagues to?
Edit: Re-reading this it kind of sounds like a "poor me" type response and I really don't mean it that way. I don't pretend to be awesome after only 35 games and I know I have more to learn. But it's frustrating that in the few times I have access to a WFTDA certified referee they give the appearance of not really giving a crap.
