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Author Topic: Inside White Board Markings  (Read 31749 times)

Offline Pinot Egregious

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Inside White Board Markings
« on: April 12, 2010, 04:06:53 pm »
After working as penalty tracker at a recent bout for a team that has a large (3'x4') inside white board, a thought occurred to me.

Standard practice is to use simple hash marks to track purely the number of minor penalties for each skater. And usually a different kind or color of hash mark to track majors.

On boards where there is room enough to do so, I was thinking of having the white board person mark the actual penalty codes. This may not be quite as easy for the benches to read as the hash marks but it makes reconciliation easier.

I am one who like to reconcile frequently to make sure that the white board always reflects accurately and have frequently found instances where the number of has marks did not agree with the official tracking sheet. When all you have to go on is a generic hash mark, it requires the white board person to try and remember why a mark was added. Was it attributed to the wrong skater? Was it simply added in error? Was it the same call received from two different refs?

I realize that the tracker is the final authority in these matters and am in no way looking to shirk that responsibility. Just wondering what best practices are and what others thoughts/experiences are on this subject.

Offline DayGlo Divine

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Re: Inside White Board Markings
« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2010, 06:31:47 pm »
After working as penalty tracker at a recent bout for a team that has a large (3'x4') inside white board, a thought occurred to me.

Standard practice is to use simple hash marks to track purely the number of minor penalties for each skater. And usually a different kind or color of hash mark to track majors.

On boards where there is room enough to do so, I was thinking of having the white board person mark the actual penalty codes. This may not be quite as easy for the benches to read as the hash marks but it makes reconciliation easier.

I am one who like to reconcile frequently to make sure that the white board always reflects accurately and have frequently found instances where the number of has marks did not agree with the official tracking sheet. When all you have to go on is a generic hash mark, it requires the white board person to try and remember why a mark was added. Was it attributed to the wrong skater? Was it simply added in error? Was it the same call received from two different refs?

I realize that the tracker is the final authority in these matters and am in no way looking to shirk that responsibility. Just wondering what best practices are and what others thoughts/experiences are on this subject.

In a bout situation, relaying both number and type of calls to the wrangler is impractical. It's fairly easy to go down the penalty sheet and relay the number of minors and majors each skater has to a whiteboard op between jams. "White 187, 3 minors, 2 majors. White 420, 1 minor, no majors. White 666, 3 minors, 4 majors." So on and so on. It takes a LOT more time to include calls: "White 187, 2 elbow minors, 1 track cut minor, 1 track cut major, 1 illegal procedure major" and so on. And it's really not necessary. The inside whiteboard exists so that skaters and bench coaches can know how many minors/majors/trips to the box they have and plan accordingly (sit out for a few jams, take an intentional fourth, and so on). It's not supposed to be a replacement for penalty sheets, and it doesn't need to be.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2010, 10:24:25 pm by DayGlo Divine »
WFTDA Certified Referee (Level 2)
Charm City Roller Girls
Opinions expressed here are mine. Not WFTDA's, not Charm City's, and not those of Zebra Huddle as a whole.

Offline Pinot Egregious

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Re: Inside White Board Markings
« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2010, 12:53:15 am »
Thanks Day-Glo. I mostly agree with you however I've worked bouts where bench coaches came up to me at the half and asked to see what sort of penalties were being called against their team. (One would think they should be paying attention to that during play but I guess there's a lot going on.) My sense is that they'd really like that information sooner but at the half is their first opportunity to ask it without being in the way or interfering with tracking.

I wasn't thinking of it as a replacement to the tracking sheet by any means. Rather, just as a more detailed method of communication with the benches. I don't even know if it would work, hence the reason  posted here asking for feedback and thoughts. We've got a bunch of really smart people in this forum.

Offline ExceptionHandler

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Re: Inside White Board Markings
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2010, 09:52:52 am »
Telling teams that there are lots of elbows happening, for example, feels too much like coaching to me.
Exception Handler
W.A.R.D (Western Australian Roller Derby)

Offline Darkjester

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Re: Inside White Board Markings
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2010, 03:48:30 pm »
Verbally telling them? Possibly.. Unless the bout was getting ugly and you told BOTH teams "Hey, we're seeing a extraordinary amount of elbows... Tell your players to clean it up"

Posting the stat sheets? I'm not sure that would count as coaching as long as it was available to both teams.
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Offline Master Chief Sprinkles

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Re: Inside White Board Markings
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2010, 09:42:37 pm »
I have had problems with coaches wondering what penalties have been called on their players. I have come to tell them at the beginning of the bout that if they have questions or want to know what their penalties were that I would tell them at half time and at the end or during a time if it was the reason they called the time out. So far that has gotten a positive response.

The penalty boards, I feel, are just for the coaches to figure out how many penalties their players have. What those penalties were shouldn't matter to them, because they can't get rid of them or change them. All the coaches and players should be able to do is strategically use the number of penalties and figure out their roster for the next jam.

When the bout is over. Then they may look at the sheets and see what their players have done and at practice try to fix those faults. 

Offline Harry Spoter

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Re: Inside White Board Markings
« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2010, 09:15:27 am »
Telling teams that there are lots of elbows happening, for example, feels too much like coaching to me.

I wouldnt consider this coaching at all if a team wishes to see the penalty tracking sheets at the half time break i have know issue showing them the tracking sheets they can use that info anyway they possibly can ya know. Same as when you send skaters of for major penaltys the bench coach will watch for hand signals so if its something that constantly happens they can use the info how ever they like. I definatly agree with you there Dayglo transfering penalty codes will just be a nightmare you really wanna get the info on the boards fast so teams can see them when they need to.
Harry "Spots" Spot'er
Head Ref
Victorian Roller Derby League
Melbourne, Australia
WFTDA Level 2 Certified Referee

Offline Pat-E-Rat

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Re: Inside White Board Markings
« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2010, 01:18:40 pm »
Quote
It's not supposed to be a replacement for penalty sheets, and it doesn't need to be.

Those sheets have designated codes and spaces, not all teams/leagues have 3'x4' boards.  Also not all NSOs are accurate with coding.  Takig such action could lead to mega-disaster...
Pat-E-Rat
Head Ref
River City Rollergirls
Richmond, VA

Offline Rogzilla

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Re: Inside White Board Markings
« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2010, 08:04:14 pm »
Hello, everyone. I'm sure some of you know me already, but for those who don't, I'm currently head NSO for the Garden State Rollergirls, and we've been shoring up our officiating crew for what's going to be a busy season.

I recently picked up a nice big magnetic white board for the league that we will be using in the center island, and I was wondering if someone was doing their penalty board with magnets instead of markers with the goal of cutting down board update time, increasing legibility, and possibly abolishing the plague of marker-stained fingers.

Anyone?
« Last Edit: May 07, 2010, 08:09:55 pm by Rogzilla »
Head NSO, Garden State Rollergirls
North Arlington, New Jersey, USA

Offline FNZebra

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Re: Inside White Board Markings
« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2010, 08:24:58 pm »
I've seen it done. The magnets were rectangular, so that rosters could be printed on paper, cut, and temporarily glued on to the magnets.

You could also use color coded magnetic dots to represent minors, majors and trips to the box.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2010, 08:27:43 pm by FNZebra »
You will bout as you practice.


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Offline Jessticular Fortitude

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Re: Inside White Board Markings
« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2010, 09:08:59 pm »
I'd be concerned about magnets falling off, storing them in a way that makes them easy to get to quickly during a bout, but not so easy that they fall on the floor and become a safety hazard, and that they can be accidentally pushed next to a skater's name to which they don't belong. Then the board is wrong.

You need to find a balance between what is easy, legible, safe, and correct.
Hey look, a search function! Right up there! No on the left

Perhaps we should all spend a little more time reading and a little less time making shit up.

Offline Stegoscorus

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Re: Inside White Board Markings
« Reply #11 on: May 10, 2010, 11:20:03 pm »
One of our NSOs printed the names on decal paper once, so we could easily move them around and reuse them.  Those turned out to get cruddy really easily, so we scrapped that plan.

What we use now is this: names and numbers are printed on regular paper, then affixed to foam core with low-tack spray adhesive.  (The paper and foam core are cut into rectangles, one for each name).  There are business card magnets on the back, which is how they stick to the white board. 

It was a tedious process to create them, but they're legible, easy to move around, and don't smudge.   They are removed and stored with care so they last all season.  If we have visiting teams' rosters with enough notice, we can usually make name panels for them as well. 
WFTDA Certified Referee - Level 3
Founding Member, ARROW
Portland, OR, U.S.A.

Offline Scorey

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Re: Inside White Board Markings
« Reply #12 on: May 11, 2010, 05:49:53 pm »
I should add that it was cutting the foam board panels that was the tedious part: now that we have them, printing a brand new roster and slapping them on to panels takes an hour at most.

Another option is to print rosters on heavy card stock, tape them together with a 2mm gap between sheets, and add magnets to the back. Then you can slap the whole roster on to the board at once and fold it back up again nicely. That's what we did at North Centrals last year, and I think it went very well. The downside is that you can't update or re-order the roster once you've taped it together, which is why we use the individual panels at home.

I'm not in love with the idea of using magnets as counters. As mentioned earlier, there's a good chance they might fall off, and they'd be significantly slower to add or remove than a dry-erase hash mark.
Eamon "Scorey" Daly
Executive Board Member, The Windy City Rollers
Certified NSO, WFTDA

Offline DayGlo Divine

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Re: Inside White Board Markings
« Reply #13 on: May 30, 2010, 08:01:41 pm »
Hello, everyone. I'm sure some of you know me already, but for those who don't, I'm currently head NSO for the Garden State Rollergirls, and we've been shoring up our officiating crew for what's going to be a busy season.

I recently picked up a nice big magnetic white board for the league that we will be using in the center island, and I was wondering if someone was doing their penalty board with magnets instead of markers with the goal of cutting down board update time, increasing legibility, and possibly abolishing the plague of marker-stained fingers.

Anyone?

For intraleague bouts, we use magnets for skater numbers, but still mark the penalties with markers. Anything else is too risky. It's easy to bump magnets up or down when putting new ones on the board, and in really scrappy bouts (or towards the end of an average bout), there's always the chance that you'll run out because half the skaters are sitting on three minors or several trips to the box.
WFTDA Certified Referee (Level 2)
Charm City Roller Girls
Opinions expressed here are mine. Not WFTDA's, not Charm City's, and not those of Zebra Huddle as a whole.

Offline REFENSTEIN

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Re: Inside White Board Markings
« Reply #14 on: June 29, 2010, 11:48:13 pm »
At our last home bout we did mark the abbreviation of the penalty on the inside white board.  It wasn't a big deal for the trackers and wrangler since they had been cross trained in each others jobs.  They actually used it as a double check.  At one point having the abbreviations on the board helped us avoid repeating a penalty that had been called by two different referees.  We saw two idential abbreviations talked and realized that it had been duplicated.
Glass City Rollers - Head Referee
Toledo, Ohio

 

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