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Author Topic: Pre-Bout Meeting and other Head Ref advice  (Read 53201 times)

Offline Jessticular Fortitude

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Re: Pre-bout meetings
« Reply #15 on: February 23, 2009, 08:28:22 pm »
Also, you can bookmark it to refer back to later- Bookmarks is a link up at the top next to "My Messages". It bookmarks the whole thread, not individual posts, so as people add to the thread, the bookmark will also update.


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Hey look, a search function! Right up there! No on the left

Perhaps we should all spend a little more time reading and a little less time making shit up.

Offline Johnny Zebra

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Re: Pre-bout meetings
« Reply #16 on: February 23, 2009, 09:36:51 pm »
Ref Meeting:

1. Stress to the outside refs how they need to stay on the jammer if she's on the outside and communicate to the jammer ref anything about her status - jammer refs depend on them! (Johnny Zebra)
2. Tell the outside refs what formation they're doing- half lap skate and wait, full lap, etc. (I inevitably have to ask every time because they never think to tell us) (Jessticular Fortitude)
3.  Don't forget to use hand signals when relaying penalties to whiteboards/ trackers.  Speak loudly and clearly, especially if trackers are new. (Timothy T. Justice).
4. Mouth guards. Policy for calling. Make sure all refs enforce it the same way (Options here: http://zebrahuddle.com/index.php?topic=104.0)  (Johnny Zebra)
5. Determine who and when does the skater equipment check (I know this should be a given but a reminder for fledgling leagues) Death by Roxy
6. Reconfirm that any ref can call a major on any player and call the jam off at anytime, but only jam refs can call minors against jammers (Bronco, per WFTDA best practices)
7. Establish procedure to start the pack (jam timer or head ref starts, hand up 5 or 10 seconds before, hand down on pack start or jam start) (Bronco)
8. Going back to number 1, stress to the jammer refs that they should look for input from the outside pack refs when the latter are in position to see a pass near the outside line. (DayGlo)
9. If there are new people in NSO rules, make sure that they are comfortable with the jobs they've been assigned, and if they aren't (or have any questions), address those after the meeting. (DayGlo)
10. Seemingly obvious one, but it does come up. All questions should be directed to the head ref. (Major Wood)
11. If you have a jam timer, explain to her that s/he NEVER starts the jam if she doesn't see you, the head ref, on the track and in position or otherwise giving her the thumbs up to go. Learned that one the hard way this weekend, and it led to a pretty messed up situation. (Johnny Zebra)

===============

Captains Meeting:

1. Inform them of the need to adhere to timeouts as timed; explain consequences for not doing so. (Johnny Zebra)
2. Explain what will happen if they cuss out the crowd, refs, skaters, flip the bird, etc. so they know up front. (Jessticles)
3. Remind them where the penalty box pass line is/ penalty for not using it and stress "communication from the box" rules being used at that bout (especially if non-wftda). (Timothy T. Justice).
4. Mouth guards. Policy for calling. (Johnny Zebra)
5. Explain/decide policy for skater formation at beginning of the jam to make sure everyone understands how it works (Johnny Zebra)
6. Equipment check as above Death by Roxy
7. Determine exactly who will be allowed to talk with the head ref, and that the team communicates through their C&A's to only the head ref (Bronco)
8. Reinforce that you want to see a fair and safe bout - this makes it easier to approach the coaches/captains later about safety issues (Bronco)
9. Explain jammerless jam procedure and remind captains that the last jam of the period will end at its natural conclusion; believe it or not, it still sometimes needs to be explained. (DayGlo)
10. Explain that there is very little time between jams to do what you need, so requests for official review must be brief. (Major Wood)
===============
Johnny Zebra
WFTDA Certified Referee (Level 3)
WFTDA Rules Q&A Working Group
Gotham Girls Roller Derby
Zebra Huddle Moderator

Offline Rev. Riot

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Re: Pre-bout meetings
« Reply #17 on: February 24, 2009, 03:18:29 am »
Ahhh, see Johnny, I disagree with that one (and that's why I dislike threads like this). I tell my jam timer to always ALWAYS start the next jam after thirty seconds, no matter where I or another ref is, unless I explicitly tell them to wait. I might be taking care of something the jam doesn't need to wait for, or might just be checking the hotboard, I can get into position, Jammer Refs can get into position, we can go without us being in exactly the right spot giving a thumbs up.
Matthew Mantsch - Reverend Riot
WFTDA Rules Theory Committee
Gotham Girls Roller Derby - NYC

Offline Johnny Zebra

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Re: Pre-bout meetings
« Reply #18 on: February 24, 2009, 03:55:10 am »
I like this thread. Threads like this are suggestions -- people are free to disagree with them or not use them.

I was in the middle of dealing with something off the track, and it was my fault that I didn't call an official timeout, becuase I thought it could be dealt with in 30 seconds. But then it suddenly  got more complicated, and as I was getting ready to call an official timeout, the jam started, and then things got more messed up.

So I needed to be on that, my fault, but even so, I prefer to have the backup of the jam timer not starting the jam if she sees I'm off the track and engaged. You know, 'cause I'm not perfect yet, and it would have saved some grief. :-[

we can go without us being in exactly the right spot giving a thumbs up.

But I didn't suggest above that the jam timer always has to wait for the HR to be in position AND giving thumbs up -- I said in position OR giving a thumbs up (if looking otherwise engaged). Normally, she just called it at 30, and I'd be on the infield ready to go - no thumbs. But for me, it's a good backup if I'm not.

~j.z.



« Last Edit: February 24, 2009, 04:09:13 am by Johnny Zebra »
===============
Johnny Zebra
WFTDA Certified Referee (Level 3)
WFTDA Rules Q&A Working Group
Gotham Girls Roller Derby
Zebra Huddle Moderator

Offline Professor Murder

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Re: Pre-bout meetings
« Reply #19 on: February 24, 2009, 03:58:56 am »
I'd be sure to add to the ref meeting the need to specify where you all are meeting between periods to discuss the bout thus far, pointing out areas where the crew has excelled, and where there needs to be better enforcement/consistency.  And, of course, to talk through mistakes and hiccups should they occur.

There's little worse than trying to have a meeting in a scant 10 minutes and not being able to find a couple of refs.  Grrrrrrrr.

Maybe also specify team colors for verbal calls.  I like to do that.
Philly Roller Girls
WFTDA Interim Games Officer
WFTDA Certified Referee: Level 5
"100% Less Dancing" - Dr. Vroom

Offline Stegoscorus

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Re: Pre-bout meetings
« Reply #20 on: March 24, 2009, 05:52:24 pm »
I thought of something to add based on another thread:

If you have stats people at your pre-bout ref meeting, remind the penalty tracker and/or score keeper that it's OK if they need an Official Timeout between jams to make sure their stuff is adding up right.  Scorekeepers probably won't need this unless it's a close game; they'll want to double check their math with a few jams to go.  But penalty trackers are more likely to need it a few times throughout the game. 

If those people aren't at your pre-bout meeting, find them before the game to remind them.  I can't imagine the feeling of knowing something is going wrong and not being able to interrupt and save the day, but we know that some stats people unfortunately feel they shouldn't speak up. 
WFTDA Certified Referee - Level 3
Founding Member, ARROW
Portland, OR, U.S.A.

Offline Tootie Tinwhistle

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Pre-Bout Meeting and other Head Ref advice
« Reply #21 on: April 13, 2009, 06:12:26 am »
So I'm head reffing a bout for the first time Saturday.  I've realized that many issues that arise in a bout could have been avoided had they been addressed in the pre-bout meeting, especially inter-league bouts.  I was looking for any issues that people make sure to address in their officials meeting and in their captians/officials meeting.  Also any other head ref advice anyone has to offer is welcome.
Denver Roller Dolls
WFTDA Level 2 Certified

Offline Ref Neck

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Re: Pre-Bout Meeting and other Head Ref advice
« Reply #22 on: April 13, 2009, 11:27:36 am »
Go over the whiteboards/scoreboards/penalty box/game clocks/jam clocks/etc locations and functions. Sometimes the your league or the visiting teams do something differently at their home bouts so it is always nice to give them a lay of the land prior to the first whistle.
DC Rollergirls, Head Referee

Offline Riff Reff

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Don't look at the game with rules-tinted glasses; look at the rules with game-tinted glasses!

Offline Johnny Zebra

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Re: Pre-Bout Meeting and other Head Ref advice
« Reply #24 on: April 13, 2009, 02:26:10 pm »
Tootie --

Topic merged with the thread Riff suggested, so now see posts above yours. Also, more discussion here:

http://www.zebrahuddle.com/index.php?topic=102.0

~j.z.
===============
Johnny Zebra
WFTDA Certified Referee (Level 3)
WFTDA Rules Q&A Working Group
Gotham Girls Roller Derby
Zebra Huddle Moderator

Offline Tootie Tinwhistle

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Re: Pre-Bout Meeting and other Head Ref advice
« Reply #25 on: April 13, 2009, 03:05:27 pm »
Perfect, so glad I searched first :P
« Last Edit: April 13, 2009, 03:12:28 pm by Tootie Tinwhistle »
Denver Roller Dolls
WFTDA Level 2 Certified

Offline Bishop

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Re: Pre-Bout Meeting and other Head Ref advice
« Reply #26 on: April 13, 2009, 06:09:11 pm »
http://zebrahuddle.com/index.php?topic=104.0)  (Johnny Zebra)
6. Determine who and when does the skater equipment check (I know this should be a given but a reminder for fledgling leagues) (Death by Roxy)
7. Reconfirm that any ref can call a major on any player and call the jam off at anytime, but only jam refs can call minors against jammers (Bronco, per WFTDA best practices)
8. Establish procedure to start the pack (jam timer or head ref starts, hand up 5 or 10 seconds before, hand down on pack start or jam start) (Bronco)
9. Going back to number 1, stress to the jammer refs that they should look for input from the outside pack refs when the latter are in position to see a pass near the outside line. (DayGlo)
10. If there are new people in NSO rules, make sure that they are comfortable with the jobs they've been assigned, and if they aren't (or have any questions), address those after the meeting. (DayGlo)
11. Seemingly obvious one, but it does come up. All questions should be directed to the head ref. (Major Wood)
12. Inform refs to call for an official timeout if the penalty tracker and/or score keeper needs a moment between jams to make sure their stuff is adding up right. (Stegoscorus)
13. Instruct Jammer Refs to check the number of minors that their Jammer has prior to each jam. (Bishop)
14. Instruct Jammer Refs to inform their Jammer of the number of minors she's incurred by holding out a finger for each minor prior to the start of each jam. (Bishop via Gunshow via Mason-Dixon Roller Vixens via Charm City refs  :))
15. Specify team colors for verbal calls. (Professor Murder)
16. Specify where referees are meeting between periods to discuss the bout thus far, pointing out areas where the crew has excelled, and where there needs to be better enforcement/consistency.  And, of course, to talk through mistakes and hiccups should they occur. (Professor Murder)

===============


Captains Meeting:

1. Go over the whiteboards/scoreboards/penalty box/game clocks/jam clocks/etc locations and functions. (Ref Neck)
2. Inform them of the need to adhere to timeouts as timed (60 seconds); explain consequences for not doing so. (Johnny Zebra)
3. Explain what will happen if they cuss out the crowd, refs, skaters, flip the bird, etc. so they know up front. (Jessticles)
4. Remind them where the penalty box pass line is/ penalty for not using it and stress "communication from the box" rules being used at that bout (especially if non-wftda). (Timothy T. Justice).
5. Mouth guards. Policy for calling. (Johnny Zebra)
6. Explain/decide policy for skater formation at beginning of the jam to make sure everyone understands how it works (Johnny Zebra)
7. Equipment check as above (Death by Roxy)
8. Determine exactly who will be allowed to talk with the head ref, and that the team communicates to the head ref only through their Captains & Alternates. (Bronco)
9. Reinforce that you want to see a fair and safe bout - this makes it easier to approach the coaches/captains later about safety issues (Bronco)
10. Explain jammerless jam procedure and remind captains that the last jam of the period will end at its natural conclusion; believe it or not, it still sometimes needs to be explained. (DayGlo)
11. Explain that there is very little time between jams to do what you need, so requests for official review must be brief. (Major Wood)
12. Coaches return to benches when asked by the head ref.  Only punishment is ejection. (Bronco)
13. Players must remain seated in their seats (not the floor).  Any players milling around the penalty box, esp. to chat, will be placed into the penalty box. (Bronco)

===============

NSO Meeting:

1. Go over the whiteboards/scoreboards/penalty box/game clocks/jam clocks/etc locations and functions. (Ref Neck)
2 If there are new people in NSO roles, make sure that they are comfortable with the jobs they've been assigned, and if they aren't (or have any questions) (DayGlo)
3. Remind the penalty tracker /score keeper/penalty box timer that it's OK if they need an Official Timeout between jams to make sure their stuff is adding up right. (Stegoscorus)
4. If you have a jam timer, explain to her/him what cues to look for prior to starting a jam. (i.e. explain to her that s/he NEVER starts the jam if s/he doesn't see you, the head ref, on the track and in position or otherwise giving her/him the thumbs up to go. (Johnny Zebra). OR tell the jam timer to ALWAYS start the next jam after thirty seconds, no matter are, unless a ref explicitly tell them to wait. (Rev. Riot)
5. (If applicable) Explain that referees have been instructed to specify team colors for reporting penalties. (Professor Murder)
6. (If applicable) Explain that Jammer refs will switch teams between periods. (Bishop)
7. Explain penalty box procedures with the penalty box timer(s) as appropriate or as their experience dictates. (Bishop)
8. Explain that NSOs are not to issues penalties or otherwise instruct skaters.  If they see a potential problem, notify the closest referee as the situation allows. (Bishop)
« Last Edit: April 13, 2009, 06:13:19 pm by Bishop »
Recommended Resources:WFTDA Rules Central, WFTDA officiating & Successful Sports Officiating
Propose rule changes at timeout.wftda.com.

Offline noidd

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Re: Pre-Bout Meeting and other Head Ref advice
« Reply #27 on: April 13, 2009, 07:33:34 pm »
Ref Meeting:

1. Go over the whiteboards/scoreboards/penalty box/game clocks/jam clocks/etc locations and functions. (Ref Neck)
2. Stress to the outside refs how they need to stay on the jammer if she's on the outside and communicate to the jammer ref anything about her status - jammer refs depend on them! (Johnny Zebra)
3. Tell the outside refs what formation they're doing- half lap skate and wait, full lap, etc. (I inevitably have to ask every time because they never think to tell us) (Jessticular Fortitude)
4.  Don't forget to use hand signals when relaying penalties to whiteboards/ trackers.  Speak loudly and clearly, especially if trackers are new. (Timothy T. Justice).
5. Mouth guards. Policy for calling. Make sure all refs enforce it the same way (Options here: http://zebrahuddle.com/index.php?topic=104.0)  (Johnny Zebra)
6. Determine who and when does the skater equipment check (I know this should be a given but a reminder for fledgling leagues) (Death by Roxy)
7. Reconfirm that any ref can call a major on any player and call the jam off at anytime, but only jam refs can call minors against jammers (Bronco, per WFTDA best practices)
8. Establish procedure to start the pack (jam timer or head ref starts, hand up 5 or 10 seconds before, hand down on pack start or jam start) (Bronco)
9. Going back to number 1, stress to the jammer refs that they should look for input from the outside pack refs when the latter are in position to see a pass near the outside line. (DayGlo)
10. If there are new people in NSO rules, make sure that they are comfortable with the jobs they've been assigned, and if they aren't (or have any questions), address those after the meeting. (DayGlo)
11. Seemingly obvious one, but it does come up. All questions should be directed to the head ref. (Major Wood)
12. Inform refs to call for an official timeout if the penalty tracker and/or score keeper needs a moment between jams to make sure their stuff is adding up right. (Stegoscorus)
13. Instruct Jammer Refs to check the number of minors that their Jammer has prior to each jam. (Bishop)
14. Instruct Jammer Refs to inform their Jammer of the number of minors she's incurred by holding out a finger for each minor prior to the start of each jam. (Bishop via Gunshow via Mason-Dixon Roller Vixens via Charm City refs  :))
15. Specify team colors for verbal calls. (Professor Murder)
16. Specify where referees are meeting between periods to discuss the bout thus far, pointing out areas where the crew has excelled, and where there needs to be better enforcement/consistency.  And, of course, to talk through mistakes and hiccups should they occur. (Professor Murder)

===============


Captains Meeting:

1. Go over the whiteboards/scoreboards/penalty box/game clocks/jam clocks/etc locations and functions. (Ref Neck)
2. Inform them of the need to adhere to timeouts as timed (60 seconds); explain consequences for not doing so. (Johnny Zebra)
3. Explain what will happen if they cuss out the crowd, refs, skaters, flip the bird, etc. so they know up front. (Jessticles)
4. Remind them where the penalty box pass line is/ penalty for not using it and stress "communication from the box" rules being used at that bout (especially if non-wftda). (Timothy T. Justice).
5. Mouth guards. Policy for calling. (Johnny Zebra)
6. Explain/decide policy for skater formation at beginning of the jam to make sure everyone understands how it works (Johnny Zebra)
7. Equipment check as above (Death by Roxy)
8. Determine exactly who will be allowed to talk with the head ref, and that the team communicates to the head ref only through their Captains & Alternates. (Bronco)
9. Reinforce that you want to see a fair and safe bout - this makes it easier to approach the coaches/captains later about safety issues (Bronco)
10. Explain jammerless jam procedure and remind captains that the last jam of the period will end at its natural conclusion; believe it or not, it still sometimes needs to be explained. (DayGlo)
11. Explain that there is very little time between jams to do what you need, so requests for official review must be brief. (Major Wood)
12. Coaches return to benches when asked by the head ref.  Only punishment is ejection. (Bronco)
13. Players must remain seated in their seats (not the floor).  Any players milling around the penalty box, esp. to chat, will be placed into the penalty box. (Bronco)

===============

NSO Meeting:

1. Go over the whiteboards/scoreboards/penalty box/game clocks/jam clocks/etc locations and functions. (Ref Neck)
2 If there are new people in NSO roles, make sure that they are comfortable with the jobs they've been assigned, and if they aren't (or have any questions) (DayGlo)
3. Remind the penalty tracker /score keeper/penalty box timer that it's OK if they need an Official Timeout between jams to make sure their stuff is adding up right. (Stegoscorus)
4. If you have a jam timer, explain to her/him what cues to look for prior to starting a jam. (i.e. explain to her that s/he NEVER starts the jam if s/he doesn't see you, the head ref, on the track and in position or otherwise giving her/him the thumbs up to go. (Johnny Zebra). OR tell the jam timer to ALWAYS start the next jam after thirty seconds, no matter are, unless a ref explicitly tell them to wait. (Rev. Riot)
5. (If applicable) Explain that referees have been instructed to specify team colors for reporting penalties. (Professor Murder)
6. (If applicable) Explain that Jammer refs will switch teams between periods. (Bishop)
7. Explain penalty box procedures with the penalty box timer(s) as appropriate or as their experience dictates. (Bishop)
8. Explain that NSOs are not to issues penalties or otherwise instruct skaters.  If they see a potential problem, notify the closest referee as the situation allows. (Bishop)
9. Don't use the word "Go" when releasing a skater from the penalty box.  Adrenaline filled skaters have been known to take this as an instruction and skate out only to get an IP major for following that instruction.  Use 4 3 2 1 clear or equiv. (noidd)
--
Referees are not here to legislate, dictate, pontificate or participate.  We are there only to facilitate.

Great Barrier Ref

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Re: Pre-Bout Meeting and other Head Ref advice
« Reply #28 on: April 13, 2009, 07:48:01 pm »
Corollary:

If the head ref doesn't cover any one of these points in the meeting, ask. The Head is in charge, but it's everyones responsibility to be on the same page.

Offline Bishop

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Re: Pre-Bout Meeting and other Head Ref advice
« Reply #29 on: April 13, 2009, 08:27:50 pm »
Corollary:

If the head ref doesn't cover any one of these points in the meeting, ask. The Head is in charge, but it's everyones responsibility to be on the same page.

+1
Recommended Resources:WFTDA Rules Central, WFTDA officiating & Successful Sports Officiating
Propose rule changes at timeout.wftda.com.

 

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