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Author Topic: Pre-Bout Meeting and other Head Ref advice  (Read 54981 times)

Offline matt adore

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Re: Pre-Bout Meeting and other Head Ref advice
« Reply #90 on: October 26, 2009, 06:27:49 pm »
I think Matt Adore is referring to the pre-bout Captains meeting; not any/all Captains/DA Rules discussions or Official Reviews.



Yes. As Dark Jester pointed out I was reffering to the pre-bout meetings. Sorry if I didn't make that clear. Once the bout starts the only people allowed to address me are the captain or DA. As I pointed out I'm not the most experienced head ref with only 2 bouts (as HR) under my belt so I'm sure this next season will be a learning experience for sure.
Matt Adore
Mississippi Rollergirls (WFTDA apprentice)
Ocean Springs, MS

Offline bronco

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Re: Pre-Bout Meeting and other Head Ref advice
« Reply #91 on: October 26, 2009, 08:31:34 pm »
Attached are my pre-bout discussion points for the Head Ref/Captains and Head Ref/Ref/NSO meetings.

Last night was my last home bout of the season and these discussion points have worked well.  They give the visiting teams a sense that the head ref is running the bout (and not the captains, skaters and definitely not the "home team.")

And I now believe the most important point is telling the captains "If I see this bout is getting out of hand, I will stop play and call you into discuss what we will do to make it safe again"
... Ref. Bronco

Offline ttjustice

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Re: Pre-Bout Meeting and other Head Ref advice
« Reply #92 on: October 30, 2009, 12:58:56 am »
Thanks Bronco, these are great.  I just found out I might be head reffing my first bout this weekend and I'm all aflutter,lol.
Timothy T. Justice
Ohio Roller Girls Head of Officiating 2011-2013
Retired Level 3 Skating Official
WFTDA Rules Theory Clerk

Offline FNZebra

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Re: Pre-Bout Meeting and other Head Ref advice
« Reply #93 on: October 30, 2009, 04:30:12 am »
Thanks Bronco, these are great.  I just found out I might be head reffing my first bout this weekend and I'm all aflutter,lol.
Ahhh, you'll be fine. You're that good, tt.
You will bout as you practice.


Cheers,

FN Zebra
Bleeding Heartland Roller Derby (WFTDA)
Bloomington, Indianer

Offline bronco

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Re: Pre-Bout Meeting and other Head Ref advice
« Reply #94 on: November 03, 2009, 06:11:10 am »
Smile a lot, listen to the captains before making a decision and act like you are in charge and know what you are doing.  Little things will go wrong along the way, delegate people to deal with them and everything will fall into place.  Be sure to offer public praise to your Refs/NSOs as a group, and criticism privately to individuals if necessary.

P.S. you can edit my captains meeting points, put your name/league on it and use it as a handout :)

Thanks Bronco, these are great.  I just found out I might be head reffing my first bout this weekend and I'm all aflutter,lol.
Ahhh, you'll be fine. You're that good, tt.
... Ref. Bronco

Offline ttjustice

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Re: Pre-Bout Meeting and other Head Ref advice
« Reply #95 on: November 03, 2009, 05:15:34 pm »
Smile a lot, listen to the captains before making a decision and act like you are in charge and know what you are doing.  Little things will go wrong along the way, delegate people to deal with them and everything will fall into place.  Be sure to offer public praise to your Refs/NSOs as a group, and criticism privately to individuals if necessary.

P.S. you can edit my captains meeting points, put your name/league on it and use it as a handout :)

Thanks Bronco, these are great.  I just found out I might be head reffing my first bout this weekend and I'm all aflutter,lol.
Ahhh, you'll be fine. You're that good, tt.



Thanks Bronco- I actually used several points in it for my Captains/ rookie ref meetings before the bout.  It was our last home bout if the year and is all OHRG (Called Skatemare 3- Jingle Belles vs. Roller ghouls).  Everything went very smoothly, in no small part to Great Scott really putting me in a position to succeed.  We had an experienced NSO/ stats crew, good jam refs and skaters who know me/ my style well.  You can't ask for more than that!

and thanks for the vote of confidence you FNZebra!  ;)  You rock.
Timothy T. Justice
Ohio Roller Girls Head of Officiating 2011-2013
Retired Level 3 Skating Official
WFTDA Rules Theory Clerk

Offline bronco

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Re: Pre-Bout Meeting and other Head Ref advice
« Reply #96 on: November 05, 2009, 07:35:31 pm »
Way to go TT!
... Ref. Bronco

Offline Riff Reff

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Re: Pre-Bout Meeting and other Head Ref advice
« Reply #97 on: December 03, 2009, 08:55:15 am »
check legality of helmet covers at captain's meeting. finding out during equipment check that the covers of one team have different schemes or are too similar to the other team causes unnecessary delays.
Don't look at the game with rules-tinted glasses; look at the rules with game-tinted glasses!

Offline Scorey

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Re: Pre-Bout Meeting and other Head Ref advice
« Reply #98 on: December 03, 2009, 08:31:44 pm »
We actually walk the captains and visiting refs around the track and point out exactly where everything will be: outside whiteboards, inside staffing, NSOs, penalty box, announcer's table, et cetera. We also try to bring up the scoreboard and show exactly what stuff will be displayed so there's no confusion mid-bout.
Eamon "Scorey" Daly
Executive Board Member, The Windy City Rollers
Certified NSO, WFTDA

Offline noidd

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Re: Pre-Bout Meeting and other Head Ref advice
« Reply #99 on: December 03, 2009, 09:06:31 pm »
So, the "away" team arrives at your venue and has a panty of a type you don't consider high contrast and they do.  You have 1400 audience members coming to see the game in about 3 hours.  They don't have any other panties with them.

I understand the opinions being expressed including things like major IPs every time they hit the track but really... what kind of a game is it going to be when you send both the jammer and the pivot to the box any time they step foot on the track?

Time for diplomacy and pragmatism maybe.
--
Referees are not here to legislate, dictate, pontificate or participate.  We are there only to facilitate.

Offline Duncan Disorderly

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Re: Pre-Bout Meeting and other Head Ref advice
« Reply #100 on: December 03, 2009, 09:47:56 pm »
I reffed a bout recently in which a similar situation occurred - one of their sets of helmet covers had a star and stripe that were almost indistinguishable from the base colour. The team did some ingenious work with duct tape 'star-outlining', and lo, us refs were perfectly happy. This bout wasn't exactly played to the strictures of a WFTDA sanctioned bout, but as Noidd says, a bit of pragmatism and there wasn't a problem. It was the home side's first public bout and the away side's first ever bout, so both were keen to put on a good show, and the last thing that would have helped the occasion would have been us refs being over-zealous and officious to the point of douchebaggery.
Duncan Disorderly
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London Rollergirls

Offline TestosteRon Jeremy

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Re: Pre-Bout Meeting and other Head Ref advice
« Reply #101 on: December 29, 2009, 06:27:09 pm »
i have an unrelated head ref question:

if a jam ref accidentally calls off a jam prematurely during a jam how have/would you handle this?
no points scored and continue with the next jam? keep the points scored and continue with the next jam? or a third option that i can't think of?

i wouldn't want a situation where this happens and the ref calls off a jam accidentally in a jam where their leagues team is scoring more than the other team, and then ethics are called into question when the team gets to keep the points they had just scored. am i explaining this well or are you scratching your helmet?

thanks
-TJ
TJ for short

Offline Darkjester

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Re: Pre-Bout Meeting and other Head Ref advice
« Reply #102 on: December 29, 2009, 06:34:09 pm »
That is a hard question to answer TRJ,
The rules say that only points awarded in error can be removed; but at the same time an issue of fairness has to be considered.

Largely I would have to know more of 'what occurred' and 'what the effect of such' was.

If it was a simple 'oops' I thought she was signaling it off; or I thought she was Lead, or I thought she was downed and I needed to call it off for safety.  Not as big a deal as of "Well, I knew that the team had just overtaken the lead and I figured she was going to call it off before the other team got any points"..

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Offline TestosteRon Jeremy

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Re: Pre-Bout Meeting and other Head Ref advice
« Reply #103 on: December 29, 2009, 07:22:32 pm »
for arguments sake let's say it's a case of "oops i thought she was calling off the jam but now she's saying she wasn't" or even that it's obviously the jam refs visual mistake and everybody acknowledges this. let's even add that there was still time left in the jam. i agree that this would not be as bad as a ref making a decision based on what he/she THOUGHT was about to happen. however  either team in this case could argue to keep their own points or neither team be allowed to keep their points. what then?

this is purely hypothetical for now(thank god) so feel free to analyze other circumstances. but i guess i'm looking for "how would you deal with this as a head ref?"

i think personally i would not score either teams points and start a new jam.

aaah, but what if this was close to the last jam of a close scoring bout? would you then add time on the clock to reset the mistake and keep it fair to a team that might be losing a really close bout and then this happens during the closing minutes? well, let's keep this discussion simple for now. my mind starts spinning these scenarios and i can't stop.

-TJ
« Last Edit: December 29, 2009, 07:37:59 pm by TestosteRonJeremy »
TJ for short

Offline Cliquework

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Re: Pre-Bout Meeting and other Head Ref advice
« Reply #104 on: December 29, 2009, 08:04:20 pm »
Calling a jam early for whatever reason doesn't negate the points a team scored legally (or whatever else went on in that jam - penalties or not, etc...)while the jam was on. The jam may be dead early, but it was a legal jam and move to the next. Perhaps it's because of ref error, perhaps there may be thoughts of bias in an extreme circumstance (I'll sleep okay though), but a far greater consequence would be to erase what legally happened during the jam based on what could have happened if it weren't called off.

Edit: A jam getting called off early (or late) for some reason or another will happen to you.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2009, 08:09:25 pm by Cliquework »
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