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Author Topic: Pre-Bout Meeting and other Head Ref advice  (Read 60706 times)

Offline TestosteRon Jeremy

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  • League Affiliation: Boston Derby Dames
  • Referee Certification Level: Level 2
  • NSO Certification Level: Not Certified
Re: Pre-Bout Meeting and other Head Ref advice
« Reply #105 on: December 29, 2009, 08:58:07 pm »
Calling a jam early for whatever reason doesn't negate the points a team scored legally (or whatever else went on in that jam - penalties or not, etc...)while the jam was on. The jam may be dead early, but it was a legal jam and move to the next.

that makes sense and i agree for any normal circumstance. good input.

so what about the near the end of a close bout? or a better question, is there a circumstance where you would not count the jam that was falsely ended by a ref?

-TJ
TJ for short

Offline Darkjester

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  • NSO Certification Level: Not Certified
Re: Pre-Bout Meeting and other Head Ref advice
« Reply #106 on: December 29, 2009, 09:17:44 pm »
That sad truth is there really isn't a "Falsely" ended Jam by a ref perse.

Any Referee who blows 4 whistles has ended the jam. Perhaps erroneously, and wrongly, but not 'falsely'.

You have to take that as a strict measure. Jam starts- Jam Ends. If we allow for 'do-overs' it starts to open the door more problems.

Clique is correct, there WILL be pre-mature jam endings during bouts. Often due to miscommunications, injuries that weren't as injurious as the Ref believed when they decided to call off the Jam, etc.,

I've even called off a Jam when a Jammer I KNEW I had sent to the box as HR, was back up and standing int he middle of the track as if she were leaving the Jam to go to the sidelines. I inquired "why aren't you in the box?" and she told me "I'll tell you in a little bit.." Something wasn't right and it seemed to be affecting gameplay so the Jam was called per " 9.2.6   A referee calls off a jam by four short whistle blasts.
   9.2.6.1   A referee may call off a jam for any of the following reasons:
   9.2.6.1.1   Referees call an Official Timeout"

This was where I found out that my PB Timer was letting the time continue through the 30 seconds between Jam End/Jam Start time.

The Skater had been told she could leave before the Jam started and was 'just' about to skate off the track when I caught her. The Jam started, she told me she was told to leave by the PB timer who nodded to me and I stopped the Jam. Put her back in the box for the remainder 30 seconds' pulled their extra player that had been allowed on the track, and corrected the PB Timer.
Madness Tolls
69¢
Beach Brawl Sk8R Dolls
Fort Walton Beach FL

Offline TestosteRon Jeremy

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  • Referee Certification Level: Level 2
  • NSO Certification Level: Not Certified
Re: Pre-Bout Meeting and other Head Ref advice
« Reply #107 on: December 30, 2009, 09:27:31 am »
yea good point there jester. i understand that things will not always go smoothly and it's out job to stop game play. that was a good personal story to illustrate that. personally i am training refs for a new league, and they have never even been to a bout so i am trying to prepare myself for what-could-go-wrong. so thank you for the input. although i don't look forward to it, i'm sure this kind of thing will happen as clique said, so i will deal with it then, but thanks for the advice. I have never actually been a HR until now, so i'm taking all this to heart.
+1 jester, and thanks again.
-TJ
TJ for short

Offline TestosteRon Jeremy

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  • Referee Certification Level: Level 2
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Re: Pre-Bout Meeting and other Head Ref advice
« Reply #108 on: December 30, 2009, 09:38:47 am »
and of course i should be taking this in consideration


8.5.4   Once a Jammer earns a point that point can never be taken away.

so regardless of the reason for calling of a jam, whether intentional or accidentally, the jam should always count. if it's called off by a ref that makes a mistake, just move on to the next jam. these things happen.
right?

TJ for short

Offline Darkjester

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  • NSO Certification Level: Not Certified
Re: Pre-Bout Meeting and other Head Ref advice
« Reply #109 on: December 30, 2009, 04:08:10 pm »
Best advice I can give there is to try and get both your skaters and Refs in training, onto Zebra huddle, Derby News Network, Skatelog.com/forum, etc.,

Take everything with a grain of salt, ...squirt of lime and shot of Patron. ( off skates of course).

Mistakes are going to happen, miscommunication, bad calls, good calls that fall on deaf ears, etc., I think someone once told me it takes about 3 years for a new ref to become "good", I've got two more to go then myself.

 
Madness Tolls
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Offline TestosteRon Jeremy

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  • League Affiliation: Boston Derby Dames
  • Referee Certification Level: Level 2
  • NSO Certification Level: Not Certified
Re: Pre-Bout Meeting and other Head Ref advice
« Reply #110 on: December 30, 2009, 09:39:49 pm »
3 years huh? i guess there will be plenty of time for those shots as i also have about 2 years to go then.

cheers!

-TJ
TJ for short

Offline JoeXCore

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Re: Pre-Bout Meeting and other Head Ref advice
« Reply #111 on: December 31, 2009, 04:48:13 pm »
I think it also depends on how much derby you squeeze in there and if it's all with one league or if you're traveling and experiencing a good variety of derby
Black n Bluegrass Roller Girls - head referee
MRDA Recognized Refree

Offline Bishop

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Re: Pre-Bout Meeting and other Head Ref advice
« Reply #112 on: January 02, 2010, 03:11:10 pm »
Mistakes are going to happen, miscommunication, bad calls, good calls that fall on deaf ears, etc., I think someone once told me it takes about 3 years for a new ref to become "good", I've got two more to go then myself.
Here’s the quote from johnny zebra that I often cite:
For most, it takes at least a year to get competent [at refereeing]; for most, it takes two years to get really solid.
j.z. is a level 3 certified referee and has been reffing derby a long time.

Also, I think one thing that unintentionally gets overlooked with new leagues and first bouts is the importance of bout production.  Your first bout may well set the stage for the success of your league in the future.  If you do a decent job of promoting your bout, it’s likely that your first crowd will the largest.  It probably depends your local population size, but generally the smaller the population to draw from the more important your first bout is going to be.  You want to get as many of those people to spread the word about the sport to come back with their friends to the next bout.   

At any given bout, there are actually at least three teams present: the home team, the away team, and the officiating crew. With all the referees, NSOs, and announcers, you actually have a third team of approximiately twenty people.  That team needs to work together well to make a bout successful.   

Here are two important components for good bout production:

1. NSO crew: The Non-Skating Official crew is critical for making a bout run smoothly.  It would take me pages to explain all the problems that can come up.  It sucks for the audience when a bout is stopped for five minutes or so until the refs can straighten things out because of some sort of NSO miscue.  And as noidd said in anther thread, this is usually due to scrambling in the last hour or so before a bout to recruit and train NSOs.  Find and train as many of your NSOs well before the bout as you can.  I made simplified scoring sheets for leagues that don’t have a regular NSO staff (that includes my own league.)  I can send them to you if you wish.

2. Announcers: Announcers who know the game and can communicate that information out to the audience are a critical component of good bout production.  For example, friends who I’ve invited to derby events, even the really smart ones, often don’t understand scoring.  One of the ways facilitate this process is to have the announcers verbally announce the points for each pass.  It’s not important that they’re 100% accurate, but they do have to understand what to look for.  I’ve taken to including the scoreboard operators and announcers in my meetings with the point trackers and jammer referees before bouts.  I explain to the jammer refs what I’m looking for and I make sure that the point trackers and jammer refs are on the same page as to how this is to be done.  If the announcers and scoreboard operators are present at this meeting, they often need no further instruction on scoring.  It’s also important to note that at higher levels of play, referees will often be in close communication with the announcers.  I noticed that mrRAWK in particular was very good about doing this at both regional and national tournaments.

I think it also depends on how much derby you squeeze in there and if it's all with one league or if you're traveling and experiencing a good variety of derby
Word!  Although I am affiliated with the RockTown Rollers, I have actually reffed more bouts for other leagues.  I mean an individual league too, not just in general.  The league I have officiated the most bouts for is, amusingly enough, RockTown’s archrival.       
« Last Edit: January 02, 2010, 09:11:08 pm by Bishop »
Recommended Resources:WFTDA Rules Central, WFTDA officiating & Successful Sports Officiating
Propose rule changes at timeout.wftda.com.

Offline Noah Tall

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Re: Pre-Bout Meeting and other Head Ref advice
« Reply #113 on: February 07, 2010, 04:17:50 pm »
I've got another thing to add to the head ref meeting.  Please inquire of captain's as to whether any skaters have disabilities which would affect their gameplay.  We had a skater last night who was not promptly leaving the track for penalties.  She came up to us during halftime to apologize, and let us know that she was deaf in one ear and couldn't hear us when we were calling.  If we had known at the beginning, we could have adjusted our calls for her. :)
WFTDA Ref Rep
WFTDA AP Area Coordinator
Arkansas

"We may not be skilled, but at least we're impartial!"

Offline SeerSin

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Re: Pre-Bout Meeting and other Head Ref advice
« Reply #114 on: February 13, 2010, 04:06:33 pm »
8.5.4   Once a Jammer earns a point that point can never be taken away.

This one is important, jams will get called off by mistake. I've done it once or twice myself. A team should never be penalized for a referee's mistake. If they earned those points they get to keep them.

Offline Noah Tall

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Order of Operations for Pre-Bout happiness
« Reply #115 on: February 27, 2010, 12:35:44 am »
I'm head reffing tomorrow, and I'm trying to finalize my prebout schedule.  Here is what I have:

Refs meeting
   NSO meeting (with head NSO)
Captains meeting
Equipment check
Introductions
Mock Jam
Jam On!

I was most curious about whether it was ok to do the equip. check  before the intros.  I know many times skaters will remove helmets for the intros, so I'd hate to do the check before then.  On the other hand, though, they also can remove their helmets at the bench, and I'm not their mom, so I shouldn't have to check again.  Does it matter?  Is there a way which makes things flow more smoothly?
WFTDA Ref Rep
WFTDA AP Area Coordinator
Arkansas

"We may not be skilled, but at least we're impartial!"

Offline Darkjester

  • Has Too Much Damn Time Member
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  • Posts: 3067
  • Stats Sheet: 39
  • "When in doubt, RTFM"
  • League Affiliation: Beach Brawl SK8R Dolls
  • Referee Certification Level: Not Certified
  • NSO Certification Level: Not Certified
Re: Pre-Bout Meeting and other Head Ref advice
« Reply #116 on: February 27, 2010, 01:45:23 am »
I'd do it just before the Mock Jam. ( On a side note. I'm going to try and get the league to do away with the 'slow jam' this year. Enough people have seen it, or can explain it to someone else.)

By doing it just before the Mock Jam ( after intros) you give the skaters a chance to line up on the side of the track, check equipment, and go straight into bout.

Madness Tolls
69¢
Beach Brawl Sk8R Dolls
Fort Walton Beach FL

Offline Brad Religion

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Re: Pre-Bout Meeting and other Head Ref advice
« Reply #117 on: February 27, 2010, 02:21:13 am »
Yep. We do our equipment checks post-intro, just before the first skaters get on the track. We are also going to have our penalty trackers walk over with the refs to make sure the numbers they have are correct.

Are we the last crew out there that checks toe stops?
Bleeding Heartland Roller Girls
Bloomington, IN

Offline Darkjester

  • Has Too Much Damn Time Member
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  • Posts: 3067
  • Stats Sheet: 39
  • "When in doubt, RTFM"
  • League Affiliation: Beach Brawl SK8R Dolls
  • Referee Certification Level: Not Certified
  • NSO Certification Level: Not Certified
Re: Pre-Bout Meeting and other Head Ref advice
« Reply #118 on: February 27, 2010, 07:20:19 am »
No, I've seen a few crews check toe-stops.

Madness Tolls
69¢
Beach Brawl Sk8R Dolls
Fort Walton Beach FL

Offline The Gorram Reaver

  • Referee
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  • League Affiliation: Mad Rollin' Dolls
  • Referee Certification Level: Level 2
  • NSO Certification Level: Not Certified
Re: Order of Operations for Pre-Bout happiness
« Reply #119 on: February 27, 2010, 07:43:25 am »
I was most curious about whether it was ok to do the equip. check  before the intros.  I know many times skaters will remove helmets for the intros, so I'd hate to do the check before then.  On the other hand, though, they also can remove their helmets at the bench, and I'm not their mom, so I shouldn't have to check again.  Does it matter?  Is there a way which makes things flow more smoothly?

Funny you should mention that...  I was just putting together my notes for tomorrow's ref captain meeting and, what do you know...  I have something on my list about reminding the captains that we check the skaters to be certain their equipment is bout ready (everything is rules compliant, nothing dangerous is being worn), but that beyond that it is the responsibility of each individual skater to maintain her equipment in a manner that ensures it continues to be bout-ready throughout the night.  You're right; we're not their moms.  Part of being a participant in a contact sport is maintaining enough awareness of your equipment that you can ensure it continues to meet safety standards.
The Gorram Reaver
Mad Rollin' Dolls, Madison, WI

 

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