intruder

Menu

ZH Classifieds
ZH Files
ZH Staff
WFTDA 12/1/2014 Rules
WFTDA 3/1/2014 Rules

Donate

Please Support Zebra Huddle!

Recent Posts

Jammer Passing Inactive Jammers by hellvis
November 14, 2019, 03:37:30 am

Re: JAMMER HELMET COVER by Stray Taco
October 03, 2019, 12:54:03 pm

Clover Cup 2020 - March 20-22 - North Richland Hills, TX USA by SodOff
September 28, 2019, 10:09:13 am

JAMMER HELMET COVER by 3Beers
September 22, 2019, 12:35:26 pm

Re: "Pincer" blocks = multipayer? by Bluebeard
July 11, 2019, 06:30:49 pm

"Pincer" blocks = multipayer? by Rego_Derby
July 11, 2019, 01:08:36 am

Re: Jammer Scoring Theory by Major Wood
June 26, 2019, 09:59:33 pm

Jammer Scoring Theory by Rego_Derby
June 25, 2019, 04:30:03 am

Re: Clamping down with the upper arm by bmd (2113)
June 12, 2019, 07:54:29 pm

Re: Ref facepaint by Major Wood
June 12, 2019, 04:16:34 pm

Author Topic: 9.1.4.1: "No more than two pack referees shall be stationed inside the track"  (Read 13375 times)

Offline Major Wood

  • Administrator
  • Has Too Much Damn Time Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2663
  • Stats Sheet: 77
  • League Affiliation: Nashville Rollergirls
  • Referee Certification Level: Level 5
  • NSO Certification Level: Not Certified
I'm resurrecting this thread because my interpretation of this has changed and I think it's an important thing to note.
You'll see in this thread that I said that 5/2 was illegal, if the head referee was calling penalties. My new interpretation is that 5/2 is illegal in any circumstances.

I am going to have to post a lot of 9.1 to explain this:

[rule]
9.1.1
Each bout will have no less than three skating referees and no more than seven referees total. It is strongly encouraged that at least one referee be WFTDA Certified.
[/rule]

[rule]
9.1.2
One referee is designated Head Referee; the Head Referee is the ultimate authority in the game. The Head Referee will assign positions and duties to the other referees and non-skating officials.
[/rule]

[rule]
9.1.3
Jammer Referees: Two referees are responsible for observing Jammers, one per team.
[/rule]

[rule]
9.1.4
Pack Referees: The remaining referees observe the pack. The primary responsibility for Pack Referees is to call penalties. Pack Referee assignments and specifics regarding Pack Referee positioning can be found in the WFTDA Referee and Officiating Standard Practices document.

9.1.4.1
No more than two Pack Referees will be stationed inside the track.
[/rule]

Ok, so we have a maximum of 7 referees (9.1.1). Of those 7 referees, 2 are jammer referees (9.1.3). That leaves 5 referees, who are pack referees (9.1.4). We know that 3 of those 5 need to be on the outside, because only 2 pack referees can be on the infield (9.1.4.1)
So why can't you put 2 pack refs outside and have a dedicated head ref? Because head referee is not technically a position. It is a designation (9.1.2) assigned to one of the 7 referees. This is why it is legal (though not advisable) to designate a jammer referee as the head referee. If you designate a referee on the infield who is not a jammer referee, then there is only one remaining slot for an inside pack referee.

This is my interpretation, nothing official.
Your friendly Zebra Huddle admin.

Nashville Roller Derby Head Ref
WFTDA Level 5 Certified Referee

I speak only of my opinions and interpretations.

Offline mick hawkins

  • Superhero Member
  • **********
  • Posts: 1926
  • Stats Sheet: 61
  • They're covers people. Helmet COVERS!
  • Referee Certification Level: Not Certified
  • NSO Certification Level: Not Certified
I also take the recent standard practices document (which is now an appendix to the rules - and so is part of the rules) to rule out 2 outside pack refs...

Half Lap Skate and Wait: Three outside skating referees is the standard
practice as it provides for the referees to maintain a constant eye on the pack
and consistent coverage..


... allowing for th
Sun State Roller Girls (WFTDA Apprentice League)
Brisbane, Australia

Offline Major Wood

  • Administrator
  • Has Too Much Damn Time Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2663
  • Stats Sheet: 77
  • League Affiliation: Nashville Rollergirls
  • Referee Certification Level: Level 5
  • NSO Certification Level: Not Certified
Right, 3 outside pack refs is the standard. Non-standard is not necessarily illegal though.
Your friendly Zebra Huddle admin.

Nashville Roller Derby Head Ref
WFTDA Level 5 Certified Referee

I speak only of my opinions and interpretations.

Offline HIM-roid

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 849
  • Stats Sheet: 14
  • League Affiliation: Mississippi Rollergirls
  • Referee Certification Level: Level 2
  • NSO Certification Level: Not Certified
I see why you say that Non Standard does not equal illegal, but since this is an appendix of the rule set, it should carry the weight as official protocol. 9.1.4 states at the end to refer to Standard Practices as to assignments and specifics. In my opinion, and that doesn't hold much water being a newbie, if the Rule Set uses something as reference, then it should be considered just as official.
HIM-roid
WFTDA Apprentice Officials Area Coordinator
Head of Officiating
Mississippi Rollergirls
WFTDA-Certified Referee, Level 2
WFTDA Officials Apprentice Program Area Coordinator

Offline Noah Tall

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 761
  • Stats Sheet: 25
I see why you say that Non Standard does not equal illegal, but since this is an appendix of the rule set, it should carry the weight as official protocol. 9.1.4 states at the end to refer to Standard Practices as to assignments and specifics. In my opinion, and that doesn't hold much water being a newbie, if the Rule Set uses something as reference, then it should be considered just as official.

The rules state you must have a minimum of 3 referees. So, are you suggesting that if a bout has only 3 refs, then according to the standard practices that they must all be outside?  That's why it's not illegal to have fewer than 3 oprs. It is standard, though, when you have a full roster to place 3 refs on the outside.
WFTDA Ref Rep
WFTDA AP Area Coordinator
Arkansas

"We may not be skilled, but at least we're impartial!"

Offline PackMan

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 475
  • Stats Sheet: 11
  • League Affiliation: Little City Roller Girls / Appalachian Roller Girls
  • Referee Certification Level: Not Certified
  • NSO Certification Level: Not Certified
If a bout were held with only 3 refs, 2 of them would be jammer refs according to:

9.1.3
Jammer Referees: Two referees are responsible for observing Jammers, one per team.

in combination with:

9.1.4
Pack Referees: The remaining referees observe the pack. The primary responsibility for Pack Referees is to call penalties. Pack Referee assignments and specifics regarding Pack Referee positioning can be found in the WFTDA Referee and Officiating Standard Practices document.

So, That leaves only one pack ref.  IMO it would be insane for that lone pack ref to be anywhere other than inside.

Offline Black Adder

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 258
  • Stats Sheet: 5
  • League Affiliation: Sun State Roller Girls
  • Referee Certification Level: Not Certified
  • NSO Certification Level: Not Certified
Can we get something official??

Offline HIM-roid

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 849
  • Stats Sheet: 14
  • League Affiliation: Mississippi Rollergirls
  • Referee Certification Level: Level 2
  • NSO Certification Level: Not Certified
Noah, If you only have three refs, the rules also calls for 2 Jammer refs. I don't know how good of a skater you are, but I don't know too many refs that could Jam ref from the outside. LOL. I was refering to the 5/2 scenario with a Head Ref in the middle.
HIM-roid
WFTDA Apprentice Officials Area Coordinator
Head of Officiating
Mississippi Rollergirls
WFTDA-Certified Referee, Level 2
WFTDA Officials Apprentice Program Area Coordinator

Offline Darkjester

  • Has Too Much Damn Time Member
  • ********************
  • Posts: 3067
  • Stats Sheet: 39
  • "When in doubt, RTFM"
  • League Affiliation: Beach Brawl SK8R Dolls
  • Referee Certification Level: Not Certified
  • NSO Certification Level: Not Certified
I think thats what Noah was getting at in a round a bout way. Making definitive statements "The rules say XX must be done" doesn't apply in all cases depending on how many refs are available.

I'm pretty sure we all know if you only have 3 refs, 2 jam Refs and 1 Pack Ref is what is required, however if you take the best practices as Gospel it does not allow for such, even though the rules say "A minimum of 3 skating refs are required"
Madness Tolls
69¢
Beach Brawl Sk8R Dolls
Fort Walton Beach FL

Offline HIM-roid

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 849
  • Stats Sheet: 14
  • League Affiliation: Mississippi Rollergirls
  • Referee Certification Level: Level 2
  • NSO Certification Level: Not Certified
My actual intent is that if a rule book has an Appendix, it should be considered just as important and having the same authority, especially when it is referenced. I was just joking with Noah, hope she didn't take it as offensive and if so, I will apologize, guess my humor was running on overdrive yesterday. Sorry Noah.
HIM-roid
WFTDA Apprentice Officials Area Coordinator
Head of Officiating
Mississippi Rollergirls
WFTDA-Certified Referee, Level 2
WFTDA Officials Apprentice Program Area Coordinator

Offline Major Wood

  • Administrator
  • Has Too Much Damn Time Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2663
  • Stats Sheet: 77
  • League Affiliation: Nashville Rollergirls
  • Referee Certification Level: Level 5
  • NSO Certification Level: Not Certified
Standard practices are just that, practices. They are not required to be followed, but by being posted as an appendix to the rules, it is likely going to be expected that you follow those standards.
Your friendly Zebra Huddle admin.

Nashville Roller Derby Head Ref
WFTDA Level 5 Certified Referee

I speak only of my opinions and interpretations.

Offline Noah Tall

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 761
  • Stats Sheet: 25
Noah, If you only have three refs, the rules also calls for 2 Jammer refs. I don't know how good of a skater you are, but I don't know too many refs that could Jam ref from the outside. LOL. I was refering to the 5/2 scenario with a Head Ref in the middle.

Let me introduce you to my reffing crew:

WFTDA Ref Rep
WFTDA AP Area Coordinator
Arkansas

"We may not be skilled, but at least we're impartial!"

 

Featured Product

 

Zebra Huddle Head Referee Bout Booklet

 

Featured Classifieds


ZH Files

How to Score a Point in Roller Derby
Rating: *****
Downloads: 3937
Views: 6458
Filesize: 327.61KB
Date: January 17, 2017, 04:21:03 am
Comments (0)
By: AdamSmasher
June 2013 Ruleset situational questions
Rating: *****
Downloads: 2557
Views: 5301
Filesize: 29.71KB
Date: February 07, 2014, 04:57:32 pm
Comments (2)
By: Crash Test Ref
Rules Q&A and Publications for 6/15/13 Document
Rating: (None)
Downloads: 2753
Views: 5912
Filesize: 26.27KB
Date: August 02, 2013, 04:10:40 pm
Comments (0)
By: Shaun Ketterman
Rules Q&A and Publications for 1/1/13 Document (4/24/13 Updates)
Rating: *****
Downloads: 3550
Views: 5906
Filesize: 28.07KB
Date: April 25, 2013, 05:45:34 pm
Comments (0)
By: Shaun Ketterman

Powered by EzPortal