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Author Topic: Major or Fourth Minor on last blocker  (Read 6962 times)

Offline Ballistic Whistle

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Major or Fourth Minor on last blocker
« on: February 14, 2009, 10:38:59 am »
Can someone tell me the process for awarding a major or fourth minor to the last remaining blocker on the track.

Do you hold off signalling it until there's another blocker on the track?
Do you signal it, but try and make sure the blocker remains on the track?
Do you signal it, allow them to leave the track, and call off the jam?
Do you signal it, allow them to check into the box and return to play?
What if there's three blockers, two standing and one sitting, in the box?

Just a curiosity really, as we came close to this situation in a recent bout.

Offline Matt the Knife

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Re: Major or Fourth Minor on last blocker
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2009, 12:48:08 pm »
Good question Ballistic,

I'd personally feel holding off signalling is giving the offending team an advantage, I'd think they would have to check in to the bin and then be sent back on by the trackers, so that the team still suffer that inconvinience.

Also in the case where there are standing blockers in the box I'd swing towards the Jammerless Jam principle, and not call the jam dead if the blockerless situation will be corrected within 10 seconds - granted that isn't a written rule, but that's how I'd probably call it.

I'd be interested to see how other people call on this one though!
Matt the Knife
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Head Referee - Rainy City Roller Girls

Offline L8R SK8R

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Re: Major or Fourth Minor on last blocker
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2009, 03:58:59 pm »
I would call the blocker off the track. Of course, then you'd have a no pack situation, and everyone would be out of play until the standing blockers reentered the track. It would be a crappy situation, but I can't find anything in the rules that prevents it. Then again, with no opposing blocker the jammer can't begin a scoring pass and therefore the team that has no penalties is actually being penalized. Hmm... This is a tough one. Maybe they ought to write into the next ruleset, or clarify, that the fourth blocker sent to the box should be waved off until there is another blocker on the track. But even then there still may be a situation where the jammer can't begin a star pass. Maybe the answer to this is that there should always be at least one blocker on the track and if they receive a penalty the jam gets called? i got nothing...

Offline Professor Murder

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Re: Major or Fourth Minor on last blocker
« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2009, 05:53:19 pm »
I would call the blocker off the track. Of course, then you'd have a no pack situation, and everyone would be out of play until the standing blockers reentered the track. It would be a crappy situation, but I can't find anything in the rules that prevents it. Then again, with no opposing blocker the jammer can't begin a scoring pass and therefore the team that has no penalties is actually being penalized. Hmm... This is a tough one. Maybe they ought to write into the next ruleset, or clarify, that the fourth blocker sent to the box should be waved off until there is another blocker on the track. But even then there still may be a situation where the jammer can't begin a star pass. Maybe the answer to this is that there should always be at least one blocker on the track and if they receive a penalty the jam gets called? i got nothing...

6.4.2.2.2 In order to form a pack, a team must have at least one Blocker on the track
at all times. If there is only one Blocker from a given team that player will not be sent
to the penalty box even if the penalty box cap has not been reached until another
Blocker returns to the track.
Philly Roller Girls
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WFTDA Certified Referee: Level 5
"100% Less Dancing" - Dr. Vroom

Offline mark madden

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Re: Major or Fourth Minor on last blocker
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2009, 08:53:44 pm »
i hold off signalling it until there's another blocker on the track

so you are following 6.4.2.2.2,

it get tricky if this occours when the box is full and the jam ends befor a 2nd blocker re enters the track,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
sun state roller girls , brisbane australia

Offline Johnny Zebra

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Re: Major or Fourth Minor on last blocker
« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2009, 09:35:34 pm »
Always wait. No opposing blocker on the track, no game.

~j.z.
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Offline Jonathan Lee

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Re: Major or Fourth Minor on last blocker
« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2009, 05:01:37 am »
I don't think it's a good idea to wait signaling a major. If you see a major happen and you don't whistle, or make a hand signal, or say anything, then the offender will think they got away with no penalty, the other team will think you're an idiot, the crowd will throw beer bottles at you, the announcers will make another joke about refs needed eyeglasses, and so on.

Ok, so that is a bit of an exaggeration at the end, but the first few are true. If you see a major you should signal it nonetheless.

How I have seen this handled in bouts is the ref does the reverse hand signal of "go to the bench" and tells the skater to wait or say real quick something like "you're the last one from your team, you can't go." They figure out really quick why they need to stay. And since they are the only one from their team, there is probably little action going on, so easier for them to hear you.

I wouldn't though, make the "go to the box" signal towards them.
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Offline Rev. Riot

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Re: Major or Fourth Minor on last blocker
« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2009, 10:39:04 pm »
In the past, when faced with this problem, I have signaled the penalty, but held off on the whistle. If the player happens to see or hear me and makes like they're going to go to the box, I clearly say something to the effect of "stay on the track!".

When another player rejoins play from that team, then I whistle the player and announce to them "(PLAYER#) there's room in the box, you're out!"
Matthew Mantsch - Reverend Riot
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Gotham Girls Roller Derby - NYC

Offline pinkyglee

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Re: Major or Fourth Minor on last blocker
« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2009, 06:01:58 pm »
perhaps i'm mistaken but isn't there a cap on how many players from a team can be in the box?  it is my understanding that no more than 3 players per team may be in the box (2 blockers, 1 jammer.)  so, why would there only be one blocker remaining? 
i know injuries happen, etc.  but is that the question?

Offline Johnny Zebra

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Re: Major or Fourth Minor on last blocker
« Reply #9 on: February 16, 2009, 06:13:42 pm »
Not only could a skater be injured, she could:

Fail to make it onto the track before the jam begins
Have equipment failure


Or, you could have 2 blockers in the box, and one who's just been sent off and skating around to the box still.

~j.z.
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WFTDA Rules Q&A Working Group
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Offline JoeXCore

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Re: Major or Fourth Minor on last blocker
« Reply #10 on: February 16, 2009, 06:19:48 pm »
In the past, when faced with this problem, I have signaled the penalty, but held off on the whistle. If the player happens to see or hear me and makes like they're going to go to the box, I clearly say something to the effect of "stay on the track!".

When another player rejoins play from that team, then I whistle the player and announce to them "(PLAYER#) there's room in the box, you're out!"

This is exactly as my refs are instructed to do.
Black n Bluegrass Roller Girls - head referee
MRDA Recognized Refree

Offline pinkyglee

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Re: Major or Fourth Minor on last blocker
« Reply #11 on: February 16, 2009, 07:05:02 pm »
Not only could a skater be injured, she could:

Fail to make it onto the track before the jam begins
Have equipment failure


Or, you could have 2 blockers in the box, and one who's just been sent off and skating around to the box still.

~j.z.

right, hence "etc."
just checking to be sure i understood all sides of the problem/question.

i would award the penalty and hold the player until another blocker rejoins the pack.

Offline Darkjester

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Re: Major or Fourth Minor on last blocker
« Reply #12 on: February 18, 2009, 05:40:37 pm »
Not necessarily until they rejoin the pack, but until they rejoin the track. Otherwise Douchebaggery could occur to stall until the end of the Jam/Period if the timing is close.

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Offline Crash Test Ref

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Re: Major or Fourth Minor on last blocker
« Reply #13 on: February 20, 2009, 08:11:25 am »
I normally call the penalty verbally, including handsignals, and tell her it's a Major, but don't whistle or signal her off. 

The skaters are conditioned to leave the track upon hearing the whistle and seeing this signal, and the rules clearly state she will NOT be sent off.  I've seen it happen where she takes 2 or 3 majors during a single jam.  We just waited for another skater to return, whistled her off at that moment, and then very quickly clarified how many penalties we were calling with her and the penalty bench and the stats bench after the jam.
Crash Test Ref
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Terminal City Rollergirls

Offline Three Majors

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Re: Major or Fourth Minor on last blocker
« Reply #14 on: February 20, 2009, 11:55:25 am »
We've started using a whiteboard in the penalty box for players who have been waved off, just to make sure we remember they still have a penalty to serve, once a seat is available. Not a solution to this conundrum, but at least a reminder you have to get them off the track to serve the penalty.
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