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Author Topic: Cross-Training  (Read 9100 times)

Offline Beau T. Call

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Cross-Training
« on: September 20, 2010, 04:40:54 pm »
I am training to become a skating referee. I have pretty much always been on skates for bouts and scrimmages.  Recently, I had the opportunity to be a score keeper (skeeper? ^_^) for a bout.

I came away from that experience with two main benefits: a deeper respect for the men and women behind the clipboards, and a few observations about what I would want a jam Ref to do (or not do).  It was a very rewarding experience that I hope to repeat at practice.

Does anyone else have opinions about the benefits and/or drawbacks of referees cross-training as NSOs? Or NSOs cross-training in different positions?
Refling (Jan 2010)
Hellions of Troy

Offline Cliquework

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Re: Cross-Training
« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2010, 05:17:56 pm »
Nothing but benifit really. Nothing wrong with knowing more. Makes for a well rounded Ref or NSO that can be put anywhere.
Demolition City Roller Derby Head Ref
Evansville, IN
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Offline Darkjester

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Re: Cross-Training
« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2010, 06:00:07 pm »
I fully support Referees being versed and practiced in all NSO positions, as well as learning all Ref positions as well. You never know when 4 minutes before the bout someones skate breaks and they end up NSO'ing, or you have too many referees and need another WBO, PT, etc.,

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Offline reflmao

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Re: Cross-Training
« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2010, 06:12:54 pm »
At RCRD we make cross-training part of our training process.  We require skating refs to work all of the NSO positions in a scrimmage or bout before we'll schedule them as a skating ref in a bout.  

The justification is partially what you just described and partially that we understand refs may need to fill in any role, at any bout, at any time, and we want them to know what they're doing when it happens.  

This training has come in useful as it lets us start using a practice I learned at ECE.  We schedule a skating ref at the announcer table.  They are there to help the announcers with recognizing calls, understanding the rules, and can join time out discussions to bring info back to the announcers and keep them informed.  They are also our substitute for any position and fill in if someone doesn't show, or god forbid, gets hurt.

As for NSOs, we try encourage our regulars to know all the positions for the same substitution reasons but we don't required it.  There are some that only want to work one position and that's OK too.  

RCRD, Rochester, NY

Offline JimmyRage

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Re: Cross-Training
« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2010, 06:54:30 pm »
Does anyone else have opinions about the benefits and/or drawbacks of referees cross-training as NSOs? Or NSOs cross-training in different positions?

This is a good thing. If you're an NSO who also refs you'll know how refs work and vice versa. It makes for better efficiency and less time wasted - having NSOs who know the hand signals and penalties just as well as the refs do makes for a wonderful bout. Especially if this means whiteboards and trackers who already have half of the penalty you're reporting jotted down by the time you skate up to them or shout out the penalty.

In my experience it doesn't happen as much as I'd like. But when it does oh man it's beautiful.
Jimmy Rage, #471
Level 0 Certified Ref
Head Ref, Long Island Roller Rebels

I play it too.

Offline DayGlo Divine

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Re: Cross-Training
« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2010, 10:12:24 pm »
Does anyone else have opinions about the benefits and/or drawbacks of referees cross-training as NSOs? Or NSOs cross-training in different positions?

Cross training in different positions means having the versatility to handle the unexpected. As others have pointed out, !@#% happens. Sometimes refs get injured during games. Sometimes they underperform to the point where they should be replaced if at all possible. Sometimes leagues have more refs than they need for a game, but are short-staffed for NSOs. Sometimes people get sick, have family emergencies, have car trouble on the way to the game, get called in for overtime at the last minute, and so on. Sometimes you go to a bout as a spectator and find yourself wielding a clipboard or putting on your skates. (On that note, never go to bouts without your ref gear and/or NSO shirt in the trunk of your car.) And sometimes you find yourself head reffing a game for a neighboring league where the ref crew is short-staffed in both numbers and experience because there's a regional tournament that weekend, and not a single NSO has done his/her job before. That exact situation happened to me in 2008. I trained the entire NSO crew in the hour before the bout, on top of the ref meeting, the coach/captain meeting, and responding to an endless string of sentences that began with "Hey, DayGlo" and ended with some minor emergency or another. It was not easy. But it would have been a lot harder, if not impossible, had I not performed every one of those jobs.

Cross training is also very important for less tangible reasons. Namely, it gives people a respect for roles that they might not typically perform. There have been many instances when I've seen referees treat NSOs poorly. Typically, those people have never NSOed themselves and thus have little recognition of or respect for how hard their jobs are, or what they personally could do to make things easier (i.e., louder calls, clearer hand signals). There's no better way to ensure turnover than to be completely unencouraging of other people's efforts as volunteers and completely unable to support them in any meaningful way, but sadly, it happens a lot. And even as skill sets and expectations for each referee position have become more clearly defined, and even as higher-level games are increasingly fully staffed with very experienced refs, people still have misconceptions about what each position requires or turn up their noses at positions they think are beneath them. IPR and HR roles are for people who can't skate, OPR is the right field of refereeing, jammer reffing is a status symbol of referee awesomeness, and so on and so on. Actually performing multiple positions does a lot to quell those misconceptions.
WFTDA Certified Referee (Level 2)
Charm City Roller Girls
Opinions expressed here are mine. Not WFTDA's, not Charm City's, and not those of Zebra Huddle as a whole.

Offline Illegal Syntax

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Re: Cross-Training
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2010, 12:18:53 am »
Cross training is great for Refs and Skaters I believe. New girls that haven't been involved in a game besides practice can be beneficial to the team while gaining a grasp on how the different positions work, learn how to navigate the venue for serving penalties, and see how skater and ref interactions go during a game. As a ref it is good to get back into the NSO spots to keep up your skills, or be handy in situations were other teams might be short NSOs. We've probably all been in the NSO position that everybody else was newer and didn't know exactly what to do and as a good cross trained ref/skater/NSO you can easily do 2 or more things at once in the middle to help others out.
"Your mom is an endurance drill."

Offline mick hawkins

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Re: Cross-Training
« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2010, 01:08:24 am »
Does anyone else have opinions about the benefits and/or drawbacks of referees cross-training as NSOs? Or NSOs cross-training in different positions?

I make all our new refs work in a couple of NSO positions - I think it's a great way to learn more about the game and a good intro to what bouts are like (they can be pretty different to scrimmages). I think Refs benefit from working in NSO positions once they're reffing too.

I asked a similar question here (in the ref only section) about should refs focus on one position or try others

From that discussion i learned that refs need to be great in at least one particular position yet able to work other positions too. i think the same applies to NSOs also

Having said that, i find that many of our regular NSOs like to stay in the same position game after game.
Considering that good NSOs can be hard to come by, i'm happy to let them work where they want to work
Sun State Roller Girls (WFTDA Apprentice League)
Brisbane, Australia

Offline WheelSmith

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Re: Cross-Training
« Reply #8 on: September 28, 2010, 07:20:01 am »
I too think cross training is great for officials. I've done a lot of NSO work the past two years. As have most all of the refs in the league I work with. One of our NSO's says he really prefers to NSO, but has been doing a lot of skating at practice. And I think it's great for him because as has been stated a bunch here already, it gives us all more experience, more versatility.
-Wheel Smith, the Ref Prince of Bel Air

Offline Riff Reff

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Re: Cross-Training
« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2010, 12:32:08 pm »
I say having "NSOed" is a must for a referee...

and playing the game yourself also doesn't hurt ... oh wait a minute... ;)

(but I will tell my grand children how I got sent to the box by Miss Trial for a low block...)
Don't look at the game with rules-tinted glasses; look at the rules with game-tinted glasses!

Offline Flat Track Protocol (FTP #21)

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Re: Cross-Training
« Reply #10 on: October 03, 2010, 05:00:50 am »
I agree completely with Riff Reff. 

There is a reason that the WFTDA accreditation process for referees starts with having had a substantial amount of NSO experience.   I personally NSO'd every job for over a year before I even considered Refereeing and feel I'm a better referee for it.

J

Offline DayGlo Divine

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Re: Cross-Training
« Reply #11 on: October 03, 2010, 11:33:33 pm »
There is a reason that the WFTDA accreditation process for referees starts with having had a substantial amount of NSO experience. 

That's not the case at all. It's fully possible to become a certified referee without having NSOed before.

http://wftda.com/officiating/levels-of-certification

WFTDA Certified Referee (Level 2)
Charm City Roller Girls
Opinions expressed here are mine. Not WFTDA's, not Charm City's, and not those of Zebra Huddle as a whole.

Offline Flat Track Protocol (FTP #21)

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Re: Cross-Training
« Reply #12 on: October 20, 2010, 02:29:00 pm »
There is a reason that the WFTDA accreditation process for referees starts with having had a substantial amount of NSO experience. 

That's not the case at all. It's fully possible to become a certified referee without having NSOed before.

http://wftda.com/officiating/levels-of-certification


That page suggests to me that a Level 1 WFTDA certified referee is certified for NSO duties.   I guess it is feasible for a referee to graduate from Level 1 to Level 2 (Skating referee duties) without having NSO'd, however somewhat unlikely, I feel.

Offline Jessticular Fortitude

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Re: Cross-Training
« Reply #13 on: October 20, 2010, 02:42:30 pm »
There is a reason that the WFTDA accreditation process for referees starts with having had a substantial amount of NSO experience. 

That's not the case at all. It's fully possible to become a certified referee without having NSOed before.

http://wftda.com/officiating/levels-of-certification


That page suggests to me that a Level 1 WFTDA certified referee is certified for NSO duties.   I guess it is feasible for a referee to graduate from Level 1 to Level 2 (Skating referee duties) without having NSO'd, however somewhat unlikely, I feel.

Skating refs can skip Level 1 altogether, and therefore aren't required to NSO since the relevant evaluations for Level 2+ are for skating positions.
Hey look, a search function! Right up there! No on the left

Perhaps we should all spend a little more time reading and a little less time making shit up.

Offline Eject You Later

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Re: Cross-Training
« Reply #14 on: October 20, 2010, 03:27:46 pm »
Skating refs can skip Level 1 altogether, and therefore aren't required to NSO since the relevant evaluations for Level 2+ are for skating positions.

Can I have some clarification of this?  Our league just became Apprentice certified, and our refs (myself included) are working towards certification.  I understand that we can apply for level 2 certification right off the bat, and skip level 1 certification. 

But as I read the certification requirements, level 2 has 2 requirements to fulfill:

Quote
Level 2:

* All Level 1 requirements met
* Must pass league-administered skating skills test

Level 1 requirements are the following:

Quote

So it would appear to me that to be a level 2 ref we will have to satisfy the requirements of the level 1 as well when we apply.  Are the 3 ref performance evaluations not to be done while we are NSO'ing?  Ie., can the performance evals be done while we are performing skating referee duties?

We have been operating under the premiss that we need to be evaluated as NSO's in order to satisfy the level 1 qualifications, plus passing the skating skills test in order to apply for level 2 certification.  And I'm fine with this because, as has been stated by others, doing NSO work is valuable experience for a referee to have.  But if this isn't required to apply for level 2...

Could someone please clarify the requirements?  I'd appreciate it.

Thank you!
Eject You Later - Referee
Old Capitol City Roller Girls of Coralville, IA
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