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Author Topic: rejoining from the box  (Read 19362 times)

Offline mick hawkins

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Re: rejoining from the box
« Reply #45 on: October 29, 2010, 01:56:35 am »
Quote
If so, a skater standing outside the track because they've been released from the penalty box, is no different than a skater who gets blocked out of bounds and the Jammer passes them?

Why is it no different? What about a skater who left the track for equipment failure? When can she be scored upon by passing her? As soon as she is upright and stands in front of her team bench?  Or within 5' of the boundary or 10'?[/b].

that particular situation is specified as a NOTT point:
[rule]8.5.3 Opponents who have removed themselves from play.[/rule]

whereas skaters who have left the penalty box and not yet entered the track aren't listed as NOTT points

But again, this is an assumption that she refuses to re-enter...

In the real-life situation i experienced (discussed previously here) there was no assumption required - the skatered left the box and went the the track edge and stood there, completely stationary, watching the pack

the ref clinic wisdom is interesting though...
i've been wondering if this is one of those things that was discussed in the clinics
« Last Edit: October 29, 2010, 05:42:39 am by mick hawkins »
Sun State Roller Girls (WFTDA Apprentice League)
Brisbane, Australia

Offline Rocktimus Prime

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Re: rejoining from the box
« Reply #46 on: October 29, 2010, 05:53:14 am »
First, I would look at the rules that indicate when a skater counts as heading to the penalty box for the purpose of tracking points. It would make sense to me that the same would apply for when the skater returns to the track from the penalty box as that action is still part of the penalty enforcement procedure.

7.3.2.2.1
The moment the penalized skater is directed off the track, she is considered "in the box" for scoring, Lead Jammer, and cutting the track rule purposes. However, her penalty time will not start until she is seated in the box.


She can stand there the rest of the jam and be free points. there is also this in section 10:


10.3.3
If a skater removes herself or is removed from a jam during play for equipment issues, she may re-enter the jam once the issue has been resolved. If she removes herself or is removed for injury or any other reason, she may not re-enter the jam.

You can check with the skater to see if she intends on continuing play. If not, it is within your right to bar her from the remainder of the jam for disrupting the jam by voluntarily disrupting normal game play. I know it's a hard line to take, but skaters who refuse to re-enter the track are refusing to play, and skaters who refuse to play really have no place near the track, bench, or the box.
Nothing is Free

Offline Riff Reff

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Re: rejoining from the box
« Reply #47 on: October 29, 2010, 08:14:40 am »
Quote
the ref clinic wisdom is interesting though...
i've been wondering if this is one of those things that was discussed in the clinics

NO! This is my conclusion after discussing it with a (californian, level 3 certified, who also holds clinics in the US) referee at the Blood & Thunder boot camp in Birmingham earlier this year. I came up with JZ's approach that a skater returning from the box could be considered a skater who is OOB and can be passed in a normal manner. But after hearing his opinion I came to find treating a skater as not on the track until she is back on the track convincing since it avoids a grey area. And that is at least providing clarity and is therefore fair and consistent.

If you go through 8.5 it is consistent with skaters off the track. Why should a skater returning from the box be treated differently like a skater who left for an equipment malfunction? The requirements for re-entering the track legally are the same. Now you say "one of those scenarios is listed". Well then is every illegal block scenario listed?

We can go back and forth on this all day/week/year. This is one of these things where clarification seems to be needed. Both approaches are valid. We can argue which one is better forever.

This should have been clarified ages ago. Maybe the rules committee does not think of it as an issue. Someone should bring it up to them.
Don't look at the game with rules-tinted glasses; look at the rules with game-tinted glasses!

Offline mick hawkins

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Re: rejoining from the box
« Reply #48 on: October 29, 2010, 08:17:05 am »
Quote
the ref clinic wisdom is interesting though...
i've been wondering if this is one of those things that was discussed in the clinics

NO! This is my conclusion after discussing it with a (californian, level 3 certified, who also holds clinics in the US) referee at the Blood & Thunder boot camp in Birmingham earlier this year.

ah
i see
thanks for clarifying  :)

Sun State Roller Girls (WFTDA Apprentice League)
Brisbane, Australia

Offline Hans Oferbach

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Re: rejoining from the box
« Reply #49 on: February 25, 2013, 05:40:07 am »
Has this been clarified? Had it happen for the first time at scrimmage last week and the question has arisen. When is the skater considered not in the box/on the track/returned to play?
Keep turnin left...

Offline The Gorram Reaver

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Re: rejoining from the box
« Reply #50 on: February 25, 2013, 06:46:45 am »
Has this been clarified? Had it happen for the first time at scrimmage last week and the question has arisen. When is the skater considered not in the box/on the track/returned to play?

When they are physically on the track.
The Gorram Reaver
Mad Rollin' Dolls, Madison, WI

 

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