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Author Topic: Point of No return / Clockwise entering penalty box (merged)  (Read 39435 times)

Offline FlamingMo

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Re: Point of No return / Clockwise entering penalty box (merged)
« Reply #60 on: July 05, 2010, 03:10:55 pm »
I understand the Skating past the point of no return, but what if they are sliding in and only their skate goes over the line? Or they slide onto the chair and one skate slides over as their butt hits the seat? Is that another lap? What about if they are sliding in and one hand crosses the line on the floor?

How sticky exactly should the penalty box NSO be?

It recently happened to me at a bout (those exact situations) as I was managing the penalty box, and the opposite team's bench coach was standing right there watching the skaters come into the box, and complained to the head ref that we weren't being sticky enough with the line (I couldn't see the whole thing so I relied on that timer to see if they crossed or not), but I kinda felt the coach was being unreasonable with the line. I mean I get it was part of their strategy, but she was SUPER anal about it.

One poor jammer had to do 3 extra laps, because of the situation described above. And I was impartial, but man I felt bad for her.

Offline noidd

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Re: Point of No return / Clockwise entering penalty box (merged)
« Reply #61 on: July 05, 2010, 03:27:59 pm »
Well, the "line of no return" isn't specified in the rules but is a common convention.

If everyone agrees that it is a line by which judgements of legal entry are made then we are duty-bound to enforce it with the same vigor as any other line.

I've worked with leagues who believe that if any part of the skater or skate crosses the line then the skater retuning has entered from the wrong direction.

I've worked with a different league that did the opposite insomuch as if as long as a part of the skater was inside the box then she was inside for penaltybox entry reasons.

Referees are not here to legislate, dictate, pontificate or participate.  We are there only to facilitate.

Offline Dave Brawlings

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Re: Point of No return / Clockwise entering penalty box (merged)
« Reply #62 on: July 06, 2010, 06:42:56 am »
The only official reference that I've seen to the point of no return line (and I haven't been around too long...) is in the 2009 Tournament Season Announcements.

They said, in part, "There will be a 'line of no return' beyond the last seat in the penalty box. If a player touches beyond this line on the way to the penalty box she must traverse all the way around the track and enter the penalty box legally."

As a non-WFTDA league NSO, I prefer the line to be not too close to the edge of the box, and particularly not an extension of the end of the box. There, it's just a trap for the blockers at the far end of the box, particularly when enforced as above -- "touches beyond the line." (requires going around)

About four feet past the box seems to me to be ideal; passing that line is a clear miss, and it's in accordance with the guidance above.

Offline reflmao

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Re: Point of No return / Clockwise entering penalty box (merged)
« Reply #63 on: July 06, 2010, 01:29:01 pm »
Yeah...  We implemented the 2009 clarifications and this never felt right and fair either.   

For a while we had two point of no return lines, one for each half of the box.  This looks odd when using a single box but it's fair to both teams.  Since two separate boxes is a legal setup this is effectively treating that the same way.

However, we did have a complaint about that and so moved back to a single line.

So what we're doing is offering the home team initial choice of bench, and then allowing the away team the choice to swap benches at half time.  This is the process they used at ECE 2010.
RCRD, Rochester, NY


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