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Author Topic: Lost toe stops  (Read 15268 times)

Offline GrandRefOtto

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Re: Lost toe stops
« Reply #30 on: April 13, 2009, 04:19:35 pm »
Just to be clear... I wasn't suggesting that under 3.1 I would ever apply the sit-out-3-jams-due-to-injury rule to anyone for equipment failure.  I was just voicing it more as a potential way of handling it in a future rule set.  Perhaps I'm sometimes a little too eager to find ways of making new problems fit the existing solutions without adding another chapter to the rules. ;-)
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Offline noidd

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Re: Lost toe stops
« Reply #31 on: April 13, 2009, 07:51:08 pm »
Just to be clear... I wasn't suggesting that under 3.1 I would ever apply the sit-out-3-jams-due-to-injury rule to anyone for equipment failure.  I was just voicing it more as a potential way of handling it in a future rule set.  Perhaps I'm sometimes a little too eager to find ways of making new problems fit the existing solutions without adding another chapter to the rules. ;-)

Understood.

The thing is that we do not penalize equipment failure at all in the ruleset and that appears deliberate to me.

If the rules penalized a skater for equipment issues then they would be less likely to stop skating for a fallen kneepad or loose wheel.  After all, it might stay on so why take the risk of a penalty or three jam sit-outs?
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Offline Cupid Stunt

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Re: Lost toe stops
« Reply #32 on: April 16, 2009, 06:24:32 pm »
I had a similar situation occur in a festival bout I was HR at.  I was doing the pre-bout check and found that one of the skaters had a very loose toe-stop, enough to make me worry and ask her to do it up.  Turns out that the screw thread is worn and she can't do it up any more than that (we both tried).

Whilst I informed her team captain, I continued to let her skate, and *another* skater's toe-stop came off!

I guess my question is: would you continue to let someone skate a bout, at their own risk, if there was the potential for an equipment malfunction during the bout?
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Offline Darkjester

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Re: Lost toe stops
« Reply #33 on: April 17, 2009, 12:24:00 am »
Depends on the equipment.

Toestops are not mandatory under WFTDA rules, Home League rules? Perhaps that'd be enforced but it would be up to both captains to agree to those rules before the bout.

Other equipment? Such as pads/helmet I'd be very concerned, but lets say a skaters kneepad strap is a bit overstretched, I might allow it if she ran a couple lengths of duct tape around her pads ( most do it anyways to tape the velcro down).

I'd have to 'see it' to determine the degree of a safety risk.
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Offline Riff Reff

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Re: Lost toe stops
« Reply #34 on: April 17, 2009, 07:57:43 am »
Quote
if there was the potential for an equipment malfunction during the bout?

if you say it that way you couldn't let anyone skate. Every piece of equipment can fail.
It depends on situation and experience.
I watched a bout in London in february when I saw a skater lose her belt which she wore over her shirt.
After the bout Ballistic told me he's thinking about not allowing belts anymore...

if a skater told me "yes my toestop seems loose but it never came off" I would let her skate saying "if it comes off once you have to remove it or get another pair of skates".
« Last Edit: April 20, 2009, 10:50:52 am by Riff Reff »
Don't look at the game with rules-tinted glasses; look at the rules with game-tinted glasses!

Offline Ref Neck

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Re: Lost toe stops
« Reply #35 on: April 20, 2009, 08:29:48 am »
Anytime a skate falls apart, I tend to err on the side of caution and stop the jam. 

We just had this happen in the last jam of the bout with no time left on the clock. Because the toe stop was able to be removed from the track by a ref prior to the pack getting around, the jam was able to be completed and the other team tied the game and forced the bout into two more overtime jams. Not to sound anti-safety, but people trip other people or back block them all the time. The skaters fall and generally go unhurt. Stop the jam if you can't get to the debris in time, but if you can, jam on.
DC Rollergirls, Head Referee

Offline mick hawkins

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Re: Lost toe stops
« Reply #36 on: April 24, 2009, 05:11:59 am »
9.3.3 If a skater removes herself or is removed from a jam during play for equipment issues, she may re-enter the jam once the issue has been resolved.

so - skater loses toes stop

do you consider the issue "resolved" if she doesnt replace the toe stop?
Sun State Roller Girls (WFTDA Apprentice League)
Brisbane, Australia

Offline Ref Neck

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Re: Lost toe stops
« Reply #37 on: April 24, 2009, 07:38:15 am »
Toe stops are not required safety equipment. Some plates don't have holes for them at all and other people use jam plugs. Let them skate.
DC Rollergirls, Head Referee

Offline mick hawkins

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Re: Lost toe stops
« Reply #38 on: April 24, 2009, 11:29:36 am »
Toe stops are not required safety equipment. Some plates don't have holes for them at all and other people use jam plugs. Let them skate.

im not sure why some thing being "required safety equipment" is the criteria here

what if her plate had come loose?
or she broke her laces beyond repair?
or her lock nuts keep coming undone?

not required safety equipment... but certainly necessary
Sun State Roller Girls (WFTDA Apprentice League)
Brisbane, Australia

Offline Ref Neck

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Re: Lost toe stops
« Reply #39 on: April 24, 2009, 03:58:32 pm »
im not sure why some thing being "required safety equipment" is the criteria here

It is pretty much the only requirement. Outside of a skater repeatedly having their skates explode and causing jams to get called off, refs shouldn't be going out of their way to attempt to stop skaters from participating in the bout. People snap off toe stops/axles/kingpins and if they can swap skates or anything else during the jam and get back out there, let them skate. What is the alternative? Stop the jam and/or make the skater go through another safety inspection while the jam is running?
DC Rollergirls, Head Referee

Offline Noah Tall

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Re: Lost toe stops
« Reply #40 on: June 05, 2009, 01:09:46 am »
Quote
if there was the potential for an equipment malfunction during the bout?

if you say it that way you couldn't let anyone skate. Every piece of equipment can fail.
It depends on situation and experience.
I watched a bout in London in february when I saw a skater lose her belt which she wore over her shirt.
After the bout Ballistic told me he's thinking about not allowing belts anymore...


In one of our recent bouts, a skater wasn't wearing a belt, and when the jammer came around, she grabbed the blocker's shirt instead.  The blocker lost most of the back of her shirt.  Is it time to disallow shirts as well? ;)
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Offline Riff Reff

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Re: Lost toe stops
« Reply #41 on: June 05, 2009, 07:48:04 am »
that was exactly my point. beware of generalization!
Don't look at the game with rules-tinted glasses; look at the rules with game-tinted glasses!

 

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