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Author Topic: Knowledge is priceless!!!  (Read 4568 times)

Offline Coach T

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Knowledge is priceless!!!
« on: February 26, 2009, 01:25:03 am »
First post!!!
   Let me start out by stating that I have the utmost respect for TRUE refs. They have a DIFFICULT job and HARD split-second decisions to make.
I hate the fact that my first one may be somewhat of a somber one.
With that said....
I am a coach, Coach T, and I help coach BBRG and QST(all of this are my views, and does not reflect opinions or beliefs of my team).
             This last weekend I witnessed one of the worst reffed games ever(no names). I can understand
when a bad call is made. I can even understand when no call is made that should have been. BUT I DO NOT UNDERSTAND when the refs and/or the head ref
don't even know the rules. At practice I see girls push themselves hard enough to puke. Skaters change their life style, their eating habits, and even
sacrifice relationships for this sport. I don't want to ever have to deal with a ref in a game or head ref, again; that will not even take the time to understand and/or
enforce what the rules are. I have no respect for some one that will not respect my team and their sacrifices. If you don't know the rules, you are disrespecting me
and all the girls that have made way more sacrifices then you know.
   At this particular bout, I had a few beers before hand(I will admit this). Some accused me of being drunk (what else could be said to deflect the fact that they didn't know
the rules). I'm sure if that wasn't said, it would have been something else. Trust me, I was not drunk. If it affected me at all, it may have made me a little bit more lenient.
Yes, I carry around a rule book in my back pocket(was asked that during a timeout while presenting it to the head ref to read). It is highlighted and has tabs on it for quick reference.
I spend hours reading and asking questions about EVERYTHING. I have spent even more countless hours and text messages about rules with refs. If you think I am exaggerating,
ask JOE CORE, HOWIE SWERVE, SIETH ROO, and ROLLER DEX. I know the rules! I design plays around rules, scenarios, and advantages. "Midget Tossing" is the name JOE CORE has coined for my
instances, ask JOE for an explanation, you might even want to add a new section for it.
   I didn't get on here to vent or bitch about what happened, it is done and over with. I only ask that when you do decide to ref a bout, that you take into consideration the
skaters. Skaters need to pass certain standards in order to compete, I believe refs need to be held to a similar standard also. I know reffing is volunteer and we need them all in order to
make derby possible. But please, when you do decide to make a go of it, you do it for real, or you may have me in your face at the next bout. If this has offended you at all, then I
apologize, and suggest you learn the rules.
                And to all of the refs, score keepers, announcers, and so-on...; thank you so much for making women's roller derby possible, Coach T.
Will argue with a ref for food.
I do not argue just to argue, I argue to learn.

Offline Darkjester

  • Has Too Much Damn Time Member
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  • "When in doubt, RTFM"
  • League Affiliation: Beach Brawl SK8R Dolls
  • Referee Certification Level: Not Certified
  • NSO Certification Level: Not Certified
Re: Knowledge is priceless!!!
« Reply #1 on: February 26, 2009, 02:40:19 am »
Not that I'm defending the Refs, nor anything like such, but if you expect and demand Professionalism from the Ref staff ( and well you should), withholding of Alcohol or other 'intoxicants' prior to the bout should be one the same list. Even though the 'rules' from WFTDA only state that those who are on skates may not drink prior to the bout, professionalism should go the same for the coach.

That being said in regards to the Refs not 'knowing' the rules, or making outright bad calls. That is what the Time Out "Official Review" is for, as well as Half Time or in between periods if you play a 3 period game. Perhaps next time have your BOD or "League" send a certified letter to the fellow league they were playing with official complaints in regards to specific errors/issues.

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Offline Coach T

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Re: Knowledge is priceless!!!
« Reply #2 on: February 26, 2009, 03:51:24 am »
You have missed the whole point of this post. I admitted my fault. Now I am sober, but some still don't know the rules. I was just pointing out the fact that it is very important that refs know their job. If a time out would have fixed it, then I would never have posted. Two or three, or six timeouts cannot teach the refs the whole rule book. Official reviews are for what happens on the track, not for explaining the rules to refs. This post was to encourage refs to learn the rules. And commend the ones that do. As far as a letter to the other league, it was not the other teams fault. I can tell you know your rules and are opinionated about it(3 posts per day). Do you feel that any of your skaters know the rules better then you, or have to correct you in rules discussion? Should the skaters test their refs before letting them in? What if a skater, a coach, an announcer or just a fan knew the rules better then you? Would you question yourself about your reffing ability? Would you feel competent enough to ref? If rules were cut and dry, there would not be a reason for this site. I also think that some type of rules test to get certified should be in effect. Refs are not the bad guy here, nor am I, nor are the skaters, and niether are you. I'm sure you have your private opinions about other refs that you know. If you were head ref and was putting together a ref team for a bout, there would be one or two you might feel aren't ready or that you just don't know well enough to make the call. If there was a test, it would be very useful to you and the skaters. That is what all this post was about.
Will argue with a ref for food.
I do not argue just to argue, I argue to learn.

Offline Major Wood

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  • League Affiliation: Nashville Rollergirls
  • Referee Certification Level: Level 5
  • NSO Certification Level: Not Certified
Re: Knowledge is priceless!!!
« Reply #3 on: February 26, 2009, 04:18:27 am »
There is a written rules test required to achieve any level of WFTDA certification. Unfortunately, because of its importance in accurately testing an applicant's knowledge of the rules, it can't be released publicly for other refs to be tested with.
Also unfortunately, there is no standard for non-certified refs as far as training goes. Each league has their own way of deciding exactly when someone is ready to ref a bout.

Even though that is the case, I have only dealt with a very small handful of referees that I felt were incompetent, partial, or just didn't care enough to do a good job. When that happens though, it is extremely frustrating for everyone involved. That includes the referees involved who do truly care about the game.

As you pointed out, the rules aren't completely cut and dry, they are evolving as the sport matures. That is why we are here, to discuss the things that might not make sense in our heads. We may not be able to cite rule numbers off the top of our heads, but many of us here know the rules well enough to deal with most typical situations. We are all here to learn.
Your friendly Zebra Huddle admin.

Nashville Roller Derby Head Ref
WFTDA Level 5 Certified Referee

I speak only of my opinions and interpretations.

Offline Darkjester

  • Has Too Much Damn Time Member
  • ********************
  • Posts: 3067
  • Stats Sheet: 39
  • "When in doubt, RTFM"
  • League Affiliation: Beach Brawl SK8R Dolls
  • Referee Certification Level: Not Certified
  • NSO Certification Level: Not Certified
Re: Knowledge is priceless!!!
« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2009, 03:21:31 am »
My Apologies for missing the intent of your post, I inferred from reading it that you were complaining about the lack of professionalism of the Refs while admitting you were drinking before the bout, but not drunk.

Yes, every league should have well trained, rules knowledgeable Refs, especially if it includes the Head Ref. However since most Refs, NSO's, even coaches, are volunteers most leagues do the best with what they can. I am pretty knowledgeable about the rules, but even I make mistakes and I'm the first to admit it. However as you noted, 3 posts per day on average( and that doesn't include the topics I just read and don't reply/post too) I take Reffing and Derby seriously and always seek to better myself. I hang out on this forum, Skatelog, the Yahoogroup for Refs, as well as regularly reading the WFTDA Clarification page, so that I can be up to date on rules, however I can't 'force' everyone to my standard. Best I can do is try to be a good representative of what I think a Ref SHOULD be, and hope that the fellow refs I encounter are motivated to do the same, or, teach me as I also learn from them.

Do I think there are DB refs? Sure, just as their are DB Skaters, Coaches, etc., but it also depends on doing the best that you can with what you have. Refs aren't being compensated for their mostly thankless job, many of them even pay league dues and their own USARS insurance as well.
Sure, the refs may have done a poor job at your bout, but what would have happened if there were no refs at all?

Madness Tolls
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Offline Riff Reff

  • Superhero Member
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  • League Affiliation: Dublin Roller Derby
  • Referee Certification Level: Not Certified
  • NSO Certification Level: Not Certified
Re: Knowledge is priceless!!!
« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2009, 09:37:05 am »
Quote
But please, when you do decide to make a go of it, you do it for real, or you may have me in your face at the next bout. If this has offended you at all, then Ia pologize, and suggest you learn the rules.

I understand that you wanted to let off some steam about something bad that happened. You just came to the wrong place. Zebra Huddle has become a place for people who are very dedicated. I learned the rules pretty well, especially when I translated them into German, I really had to think about the real meaning of every single phrase (still, I am far from being an expert). And even people who come here and are new to derby or the ruleset get inspired and come back with really serious questions proving they are taking the game for granted.

No harm done, your concern is absolutely justified. I just believe the DBs you are worried about are simply not here. And the people who are here are just as concerned as you about people undermining the game by lack of dedication and professionalism.
Don't look at the game with rules-tinted glasses; look at the rules with game-tinted glasses!

Offline Major Wood

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  • Posts: 2663
  • Stats Sheet: 77
  • League Affiliation: Nashville Rollergirls
  • Referee Certification Level: Level 5
  • NSO Certification Level: Not Certified
Re: Knowledge is priceless!!!
« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2009, 01:05:57 pm »
And even people who come here and are new to derby or the ruleset get inspired and come back with really serious questions proving they are not taking the game for granted.

I think that's what you meant, emphasized text mine.
Your friendly Zebra Huddle admin.

Nashville Roller Derby Head Ref
WFTDA Level 5 Certified Referee

I speak only of my opinions and interpretations.

Offline Riff Reff

  • Superhero Member
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  • Posts: 1001
  • Stats Sheet: 30
  • League Affiliation: Dublin Roller Derby
  • Referee Certification Level: Not Certified
  • NSO Certification Level: Not Certified
Re: Knowledge is priceless!!!
« Reply #7 on: February 27, 2009, 02:46:27 pm »
no, that is not what I meant. I wanted to say, Derby newbies (like me ;) ) come here and find a lot of dedicated people and then come up with good stuff themselves. That's my impression so far...
Don't look at the game with rules-tinted glasses; look at the rules with game-tinted glasses!

Offline L8R SK8R

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Re: Knowledge is priceless!!!
« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2009, 03:10:06 pm »
no, that is not what I meant. I wanted to say, Derby newbies (like me ;) ) come here and find a lot of dedicated people and then come up with good stuff themselves. That's my impression so far...

</language barrier>

Riff, when you take something for granted, you aren't appreciating that something. If people are using ZH as a valuable resource to learn and share ideas, they are not taking it for granted.

Offline Riff Reff

  • Superhero Member
  • **********
  • Posts: 1001
  • Stats Sheet: 30
  • League Affiliation: Dublin Roller Derby
  • Referee Certification Level: Not Certified
  • NSO Certification Level: Not Certified
Re: Knowledge is priceless!!!
« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2009, 03:51:29 pm »
thx.. I guess I meant "to take sth. serious".  One word a day lesson.. :)
Don't look at the game with rules-tinted glasses; look at the rules with game-tinted glasses!

Offline Darkjester

  • Has Too Much Damn Time Member
  • ********************
  • Posts: 3067
  • Stats Sheet: 39
  • "When in doubt, RTFM"
  • League Affiliation: Beach Brawl SK8R Dolls
  • Referee Certification Level: Not Certified
  • NSO Certification Level: Not Certified
Re: Knowledge is priceless!!!
« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2009, 04:31:41 pm »
Hey man, If I could pick up Spanish I learned in HS as well as you are crossing the language barrier from German to English I could be making 60K right now.
Madness Tolls
69¢
Beach Brawl Sk8R Dolls
Fort Walton Beach FL

 

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