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Author Topic: OFFICIAL RULES ANSWER  (Read 27533 times)

Offline Graeme

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Re: OFFICIAL RULES ANSWER
« Reply #15 on: June 24, 2011, 01:21:37 pm »
has there been any more clarifications since it has been 2 months since the last one???

Offline JoeXCore

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Re: OFFICIAL RULES ANSWER
« Reply #16 on: June 24, 2011, 03:33:26 pm »
Anything that should be posted here is posted here VERY soon after it can be.

However there are these...

http://wftda.com/rules/qa

Which are not posted here. One thing has been released there in the last bit.
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Offline JoeXCore

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Re: OFFICIAL RULES ANSWER
« Reply #17 on: July 15, 2011, 12:59:13 am »
http://wftda.com/rules

At a glance this thread is likely obsolete.

EDIT - apparently there are a number of things here that aren't there
« Last Edit: July 15, 2011, 01:07:31 am by JoeXCore »
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Offline mick hawkins

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Re: OFFICIAL RULES ANSWER
« Reply #18 on: July 15, 2011, 01:05:49 am »
http://wftda.com/rules

At a glance this thread is likely obsolete.

There's a number of things on page one of this thread that aren't on the /rules page
Sun State Roller Girls (WFTDA Apprentice League)
Brisbane, Australia

Offline Midnight Mark

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Re: OFFICIAL RULES ANSWER
« Reply #19 on: March 29, 2012, 11:42:31 pm »
Not to propagate the non-rules discussion but my understanding of this thread is that only clarifications posted on the WFTDA message board and not consequently posted on the /rules page of the website will be posted here.  Since anyone can see the Rules QA on the WFTDA site they do not need to be posted here.

Offline Rev. Riot

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Re: OFFICIAL RULES ANSWER
« Reply #20 on: July 31, 2014, 05:46:35 am »
Hope this is the right place:

Official Rules Committee post:

Forceful contact above the shoulders, even unintentional, should be called as a high block.
Quote
No Impact/No Penalty
5.2.1 - Contact above the shoulders that is incidental.
Penalty
5.2.2 - Any block with forceful contact landing above the shoulders.

We suspect that some forceful high blocks are not being called because they are judged to be "incidental," in the sense that they are secondary to some other action.
Quote
No Impact/No Penalty
5.2.1 - Contact above the shoulders that is incidental.
With regard to high blocks, "Incidental" describes contact that you would only mention because it was above the shoulders, and otherwise was entirely un-noteworthy.  Forceful contact that is secondary to another action should not be treated as "incidental" in this context.

WFTDA removed the notion of secondary from the high block section in order for a penalty to be given to any hit that had forceful contact to the head.  "Incidental" under the no penalty section should not be read as "secondary." We'll be changing the wording in the next rule set to replace the word "incidental" with "not forceful" in order to make this more clear.
Matthew Mantsch - Reverend Riot
WFTDA Rules Theory Committee
Gotham Girls Roller Derby - NYC

Offline Vanilla VICE

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Re: OFFICIAL RULES ANSWER
« Reply #21 on: July 31, 2014, 12:55:28 pm »
I'm glad to see this being put out there. I was still hearing refs that were still quoting the previous ruleset and trying to apply that to the current one.
Muscogee Roller Girls: Columbus, GA
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Offline ttjustice

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Re: OFFICIAL RULES ANSWER
« Reply #22 on: April 02, 2015, 01:35:29 am »
I received feedback that the Star Pass to draw a Cut is still not being called consistently, so I am posting the consensus answer which is also the one agreed upon by WFTDA Rules Comm.  Please share with any appropriate groups to spread the knowledge!

Star Pass to draw a Cut

Situation:
•   Jam starts and Green Jammer blocks Blue Jammer out of bounds.
•   Green Jammer skates clockwise to force the Blue Jammer to come in behind her.
•   Blue Jammer starts to also skate clockwise out of bounds but stops in turn 3 and waits.
•   Green Jammer makes it to the front of the pack which is near the pivot line now.
•   Green Jammer (still ahead of the pack) passes the star to the Green Pivot who is the foremost blocker in the pack.
•   New Green Jammer skates forward and back around to begin her initial pass, while the old Green Jammer (now blocker) remains with the pack.
•   Blue Jammer waits until the pack comes around and she reenters behind the old Green Jammer now blocker.
The consensus was that the Blue Jammer needed to reenter behind the old Green Jammer/Blocker and that the old Green Jammer/Blocker was now just part of the pack.  Keep it simple right? We all know how when a group of derby officials get together they start talking about rules they begin tossing out "what about this?" or "what about that?"  So here are a couple questions a group of us had:
1.   When the star pass took place, was the old jammer now new blocker really really far behind the pack & need to reenter the pack from the rear?
2.   Pending on how you view the answer to question #1, would then the old jammer/new blocker have lost her "relative position" allowing the Blue jammer to enter the track once the star pass was completed?


Analysis:

The Blue Jammer can re-enter immediately after the Star Pass happens.

We know that the Green Jammer is a lap behind the pack. That's a position (the Jammer position), as evidenced by the fact that both the position and the status that position has can be transferred.

We know that the Green Pivot/all other Green Blockers are on the same lap as the Blue Jammer. Since the Player A is no longer a Jammer, and must now be a Blocker, and since she won't be penalized for illegally entering the pack from the wrong direction, presumably she is also on the same pass as the Pack and the Blue Jammer.

So Blue Jammer can immediately re-enter, because she IS entering legally behind the person who knocked her out. That person is the Green Blocker who is on the same pass as her, and is now in front of her.

Also discussed in this ZH thread.
http://www.zebrahuddle.com/index.php?topic=4450.msg47771#msg47771
Timothy T. Justice
Ohio Roller Girls Head of Officiating 2011-2013
Retired Level 3 Skating Official
WFTDA Rules Theory Clerk

Offline ttjustice

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Re: OFFICIAL RULES ANSWER
« Reply #23 on: April 29, 2015, 12:03:27 pm »
WFTDA Rules Committee Statement on Multi-Player Blocking.

Section 5.7 makes multiple references to "upon a physical challenge by an opponent."  The intent of that language is to indicate that a skater must physically attempt to get in between the two opponents that are linked, grasping, or intertwined.  The skater does not need to make direct, physical contact to the linked body part(s) in order for a multi-player block penalty to be assessed.

The rule is designed to eliminate the unfairness inherent in reinforcing a connection in a wall, allowing officials to make calls based on the action rather than forcing additional analysis of the potential impact or outcome of that action.

(So the message is there was no change to the rule itself from the previous ruleset.)
Timothy T. Justice
Ohio Roller Girls Head of Officiating 2011-2013
Retired Level 3 Skating Official
WFTDA Rules Theory Clerk

Offline ttjustice

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Re: OFFICIAL RULES ANSWER
« Reply #24 on: June 01, 2015, 07:00:07 pm »
Rules Committee Statement on Forearms

    In observing recent gameplay under the 2015 rules, the Rules Committee is concerned about varying impact standards for Forearms penalties, and more specifically an incongruent standard for penalization between forearms used to impede versus forearms used to pass an opponent. While these are two different types of action that will ultimately always look different, we need to align the level of impact. Roller Derby is not played using one’s hands or forearms against an opponent, however like most illegal actions, the Forearms rules call for an impact determination. In the gameplay observed, “forearms to impede” have at times been called too aggressively while “forearms to pass” have been called too lax.

    Quote

    5.5.8 - Use of hands or forearms to grab, hold onto or hold back an opponent impeding that opponent’s mobility.


    Referees should visually establish that active resistance is being applied with the forearm. This typically cannot be established in a singular moment in time or by the observance of contact alone. If the contact happens and is immediately dropped, then it probably ought not be called as a penalty. If it lasts long enough to be clear that the illegal contact is holding back the opponent, a “forearm for impeding” penalty is likely warranted.

    A referee might not be able to determine if a skater is impeded after the first instance of quick, successive forearm contacts. However, if the skater is repeatedly using hands/forearms to maintain engagement with, or a superior position to, an opponent, or if that opponent would've been able to get by the initiating skater were it not for these temporary forearms, a penalty is warranted.

    Quote

    5.5.7 - Any illegal forearm or hand contact allowing the initiator or a teammate to gain relative position, or causing an opponent to lose relative position.


    The Rules Committee has often heard the interpretation that the illegal forearm contact must “cause” the pass, however causation is often more complicated than a single point of contact, and this interpretation leads referees to be unable to make a call due to being less than certain that the illegal forearm contact was the sole cause of the pass. Referees ought to determine if the illegal hand/forearm contact materially aided in the pass. If a skater uses their hands/forearms to assist themself in passing an opponent, a penalty is warranted. Incidental contact that does not aid or assist in the change of relative position (nor warrant a penalty for any other reason) ought not be penalized.


    Using hands/forearms to maintain balance or an in-bounds status without impeding or causing a change in relative position against an opponent should not currently be called as a penalty in the rules. The Rules Committee acknowledges that a significant portion of skaters believe this ought to be penalized, however it does not represent the intent of the current Rules of Flat Track Roller Derby. In observation of gameplay and anecdotal experience, the Rules Committee also believes that instances of this action are rare.

Timothy T. Justice
Ohio Roller Girls Head of Officiating 2011-2013
Retired Level 3 Skating Official
WFTDA Rules Theory Clerk

Offline Vanilla VICE

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Re: OFFICIAL RULES ANSWER
« Reply #25 on: June 02, 2015, 01:10:01 pm »
Quote
The Rules Committee has often heard the interpretation that the illegal forearm contact must “cause” the pass, however causation is often more complicated than a single point of contact, and this interpretation leads referees to be unable to make a call due to being less than certain that the illegal forearm contact was the sole cause of the pass. Referees ought to determine if the illegal hand/forearm contact materially aided in the pass. If a skater uses their hands/forearms to assist themself in passing an opponent, a penalty is warranted. Incidental contact that does not aid or assist in the change of relative position (nor warrant a penalty for any other reason) ought not be penalized.

I really like this part because I have been recently trying to make the case that aiding is a penalty but met with resistance.

As far is the impeding being too strict, I didn't even know that was being called to strict. I really like these types of clarifications that put people on the same page.
Muscogee Roller Girls: Columbus, GA
FlatTrackStats Mod

Offline ttjustice

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Re: OFFICIAL RULES ANSWER
« Reply #26 on: March 01, 2016, 06:43:45 pm »
Rules Committee statement on Point of No Return:

The 2015 revision to 6.1.1.1, when paired with 6.2.2.1.1, created an unintended application of the Point of No Return. The 2015 revision to 6.1.1.1 was in respect to scoring points and not the Point of No Return. Therefore, 6.2.2.1.1 should now read as:

6.2.2.1.1 If, after receiving the appropriate hand signal and verbal cue, all parts of a penalized Skater have passed beyond the Point of No Return (see Glossary), the Skater must skate all the way around the track in order to enter the box from the appropriate counter-clockwise direction.

(and my apologies for not being around here much- youngest is playing club and high school volleyball and oldest is going to college next year so applications and stuff.  A full life I lead!)
Timothy T. Justice
Ohio Roller Girls Head of Officiating 2011-2013
Retired Level 3 Skating Official
WFTDA Rules Theory Clerk

Offline ttjustice

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Re: OFFICIAL RULES ANSWER
« Reply #27 on: March 01, 2016, 06:45:09 pm »
Rules Time Out Clarification:


Q: If an Alternate is not wearing an “A,” should they immediately receive a penalty?
A: 2.7.2 states that a team’s Designated Alternate must visibly display an “A” on their clothing, uniform, or arm.

Although failing to visibly display an “A” is a violation of the rules, a penalty is only warranted if and when there has been an impact on the game. An example of impact would include a Designated Alternate successfully calling a Team Timeout or Official Review.

A team must select its Designated Alternate and identify them to the Head Referee prior the start of the game. Once the game has started, a team may not replace their Designated Alternate. A team that does not select and identify its Designated Alternate prior to the start of the game may not do so once the game has started (2.7.2.2).

A Designated Alternate who fails to visibly display an “A” does not have their status as Designated Alternate revoked - there is no such thing as an “inactive Designated Alternate.”

Example 1
A team’s Designated Alternate is not visibly displaying an “A.” They request a Team Timeout.
Verdict - The Team Timeout should be granted. An Illegal Procedure penalty should be issued to the Designated Alternate (or, if the Designated Alternate is a Non-Skater, to the Captain as per 6.1.4) for a Uniform Violation.
Reasoning - There is no such thing as an “inactive Designated Alternate” - despite not visibly displaying an “A,” the Designated Alternate retains the privilege of calling a Team Timeout. Officials should grant the request if their team has a Team Timeout remaining. However, successfully calling the the Team Timeout while not visibly displaying an “A” has impacted on the game, and warrants a penalty (5.13.13).

Example 2
A team’s Captain calls an Official Review. Officials grant the request. The team’s Designated Alternate, while not visibly displaying an “A,” conferences with the Head Referee during the Official Review.
Verdict - No Penalty.
Reasoning - The Official Review was called legally, by the Captain. The Designated Alternate’s failure to visibly display an “A” has not had enough impact on the game to warrant a penalty.


Q: Should a Captain not wearing a “C” be treated the same way?
A: Yes. The principles in the answer above also apply to a Captain not wearing a “C.”
However, note that it is possible to replace a Captain mid-game (2.7.2.1).


Q: A non-Captain, non-Alternate skater requests a Team Timeout. Should they immediately receive a penalty?
A: 1.7.2 and 1.11.1.1 state that a team’s Captain or Designated Alternate signal the Officials to request a Team Timeout or Official Review.

A non-Captain, non-Alternate skater (or support staff member) who signals the Officials for a Team Timeout or Official Review should not have their request granted. No penalty is warranted.

In the event that their request for a Team Timeout or Official Review is successful, a Delay of Game penalty should be issued to the requesting Skater (or, if the requester is a support staff member, to the Captain as per 6.1.4).

Example 3
A Skater (who is neither the Captain, nor the Designated Alternate) requests a Team Timeout. Officials grant the request.
Verdict - A Delay of Game penalty should be issued to the Skater. The next jam should be started as quickly as possible (but no sooner than 30 seconds from the end of the previous jam). The team should not be charged for a Timeout.
Reasoning - The Skater’s successful, but illegal, request has interfered with the standard progression of the game. This has caused enough impact on the game to warrant a penalty.

Example 4
A Skater (who is not the Designated Alternate) uses hand signals to communicate with their Captain, asking for a Team Timeout to be called. An Official, mistaking the Skater’s hand signals for a legal request, grants a  Team Timeout.
Verdict - No Penalty. The next jam should be started as quickly as possible (but no sooner than 30 seconds from the end of the previous jam). The team should not be charged for a Timeout.
Reasoning - The Skater was attempting to communicate with their Captain. They were not attempting to request a Team Timeout from the Officials. No penalty is warranted.
Timothy T. Justice
Ohio Roller Girls Head of Officiating 2011-2013
Retired Level 3 Skating Official
WFTDA Rules Theory Clerk

 

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