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Author Topic: How to judge a stopped skater positionally blocking  (Read 3590 times)

Offline reflmao

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How to judge a stopped skater positionally blocking
« on: March 19, 2011, 11:59:31 pm »
This came up in our after scrim discussion.  A nice simple discussion of judging impact that left us less confident after discussing it.

A skater is ahead of the pack, she stops still on the track and stays stopped while the pack passes her.  There is no contact, but the opposing skaters have to skate around her.

The question isn't what penalty, the appropriate rules are clear:
[rule]6.9.1 [...]These illegal blocking techniques include positional blocking. [...][/rule]
[rule]6.9.12 A block by a stopped skater that forces the receiving opposing skater off balance, forward, and/or sideways, but does not cause her to lose her relative position.
[/rule]
And the definition of blocking includes:
[rule][...]Impeding the movement of an opposing skater by hitting her or positioning yourself in her path.[/rule]

The question is what is the thought process to decide whether to assign the, the severity, and how many.

Opposing skaters need to skate around her, what criteria do you use when judging severity between no impact, minor, and major?   
 
Do you assign just one DofG or do you start assigning one per skater who has to move around her?  It's one action of standing there, but it's effect is 4 skaters forced sideways.   

There are several threads discussing similar questions but I thought this was just different enough to warrant it's own.   In particular, check out Positional Blocking at the Start of a Jam http://www.zebrahuddle.com/index.php?topic=1365.0
RCRD, Rochester, NY

Offline The Gorram Reaver

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Re: How to judge a stopped skater positionally blocking
« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2011, 10:07:41 am »
The "how many" is actually the easiest part.  "One action, one penalty."  The skater who stopped on the track took only one action - she stopped on the track.*  If opposing skaters were forced to move around her and a penalty should be issued, how many opponents had to move around her is immaterial. 

To determine whether or not the skater who stopped should be issued any penalty at all, you must determine whether or not her action of stopping on the track was done in such a manner that other skaters had no reasonable opportunity to avoid her & maneuver around her (Direction of Gameplay penalty to stopped skater), or whether she did so well enough in advance of when other skaters would reach her location and those other (opposing) skaters therefor had ample opportunity to adjust their play and maneuver around her (no penalty).

For more on the guiding principles/concepts, see this post.

*Caveat - if she did not remain immobile once stopped, she may have engaged in more than one action ("I'm going to positionally block YOU when I'm HERE.  Then I'm going to move and positionally block YOU while I'm HERE"), and may therefor be subject to more than one penalty.
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Offline Darkjester

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Re: How to judge a stopped skater positionally blocking
« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2011, 04:32:33 pm »
I'm not so certain this is a penalty. You stated from the description that the skater was ahead of the pack and out of play. She then to return to play stopped skating and waited for the pack to return. At that point she had established position and the pack was oncoming. They had more than 20 feet before engaging her so chose rather than 'was forced' to step aside from her. (Similar to what Reaver said in her second paragraph)


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Offline Major Wood

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Re: How to judge a stopped skater positionally blocking
« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2011, 05:01:41 pm »
Not necessarily true. It's possible that she was 21 feet ahead of the pack and had a skater behind her at 18 feet ahead of the pack. If that were the case, there is a possibility of a direction of gameplay penalty.
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Offline Black Adder

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Re: How to judge a stopped skater positionally blocking
« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2011, 11:19:16 pm »
I wouldn't think that 'standing still' could be considered an 'established position' so anyone with an 'established path' or even a 'Dynamic Path' would overide the still players position and if they had to move around the stationary player then that would be a penalty.

A high level WFTDA certified ref also explained that if the jammer has a preferred 'path' that you as jammer ref recognise and any stationary player interferes with that path then that is a penalty even if the stationary player is at the end of the second straight and the jammer adjusts her 'path' a quarter of the way down the straight. The Jammers 'Established Path' has been affected by the stationary players 'illegal Position' (I made up the illegal position term I don't know if it's common use). In this scenario I'd place the Pack in the middle of turn 4, just for ease.

I would consider multiple penalties as the stationary player could start moving forward at any moment but remains stationary long enough th affect multiple opposing players, just a little roll forward would stop the skater getting a penalty.

Offline reflmao

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Re: How to judge a stopped skater positionally blocking
« Reply #5 on: March 21, 2011, 02:09:53 am »
If she just stops right in front of someone then by the hierarchy of positions she has a temporary position and forcing pack skaters to skate around her is definitely a DofG penalty and judged accordingly.  There were no problems with this interpretation in our group.

If she's stopped further ahead then at some point her standing position becomes her established position.  This is where the questions were.  

What are the kinds of things you look at when judging the temporary position becoming an established position?  I understand there can't be a hard and fast answer, I'm just try to figure out what to take into consideration.

Even if the stopped skater has an established position so does the pack skater forced to avoid her, there could be a DofG anyway.  The pack skater veered around a stopped skater what do you take into consideration when judging impact.
RCRD, Rochester, NY

Offline mick hawkins

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Re: How to judge a stopped skater positionally blocking
« Reply #6 on: March 21, 2011, 03:31:39 am »
What are the kinds of things you look at when judging the temporary position becoming an established position?  I understand there can't be a hard and fast answer, I'm just try to figure out what to take into consideration.

I dont think we need to get hung up on established vs temporary position for a stopped skater.
To my way of thinking - having an established position does not make blocking while stationary legal.

This is not too hard to assess at the start of a jam. If a skater remains stationary at the jam starting whistle, and an opponent behind her has step around to skate forward - thats a minor DoGP.

Another example is a stationary blocker standing on the apex of the corner. If Jammer who's on a path around the curve, coming in close to the inside boundary, has to veer around the blocker, the blocker has positionally blocked the Jammer. That's a minor DoGP too. It doesn't matter that the stationary blocker had an established position - she's stationary and in the Jammer's path.

Just assess if the skater approaching from behind had to adjust her path to go around the stopped skater.
If she did - then the stopped skater positionall blocked her - so a DoGP penalty results for the stopped skater.
Did the approaching skater just have to step around and continue on her way inbounds? it's a minor
Was the approaching skater forced OOB (not a frequent result but certainly possible)? it's a major.

If skater deliberately skates up behind a stationary opponent - we don't penalise the opponent for positionally blocking. Assess whether there was impact (like we do with other penalties).
« Last Edit: March 21, 2011, 03:49:01 am by mick hawkins »
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Offline SeerSin

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Re: How to judge a stopped skater positionally blocking
« Reply #7 on: March 21, 2011, 04:25:04 am »
Please keep in mind that established position is a term used solely to assist in determining the initiator of a block.
Also, standing in place is not necessarily a positional block. What is the impact of a skater simply going around another skater? I think most often no impact. Stopping on the track is legal. One skater simply moving around another is not a penalty, it's playing roller derby.
In order to determine a positional block I'm looking for some kind of action, not a skater standing on the track without moving. Stepping in front of a skater, coming to a compete stop while in front of another skater, these are positional blocks.
I'm sure we can all list 100 different scenarios that would suggest a penalty. What's important to take away from this is to look for the impact and penalize, or not, accordingly.

 

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