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Author Topic: BB major AND IP minor?  (Read 2409 times)

Offline PackMan

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BB major AND IP minor?
« on: June 30, 2011, 04:50:53 am »
Just got home from jammer reffing a scrimmage.  At one point the jammer I was following, who had earned lead on the previous pass, committed what I deamed a BB major.  Both she and the blocker she hit ended up on the floor.  Once down the jammer immediately signaled to call off the jam....before I had actually called the penalty.


A) called off
B) BB major, no call off
C) BB major, and IP minor for attempting to call off when not lead
D) something else

Offline mick hawkins

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Re: BB major AND IP minor?
« Reply #1 on: June 30, 2011, 05:08:17 am »
B

no penalty for attempting to call it off

she hasn't lost lead until you send her off
...and since she committed the penalty first, that's what you call
« Last Edit: June 30, 2011, 05:15:05 am by mick hawkins »
Sun State Roller Girls (WFTDA Apprentice League)
Brisbane, Australia

Offline FNZebra

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Re: BB major AND IP minor?
« Reply #2 on: June 30, 2011, 05:19:42 am »
Just got home from jammer reffing a scrimmage.  At one point the jammer I was following, who had earned lead on the previous pass, committed what I deamed a BB major.  Both she and the blocker she hit ended up on the floor.  Once down the jammer immediately signaled to call off the jam....before I had actually called the penalty.


A) called off
B) BB major, no call off
C) BB major, and IP minor for attempting to call off when not lead
D) something else

Like a good penalty box crew, handle them in the order they arrive.

Here, call the major, and she's off before she attempts to call off the jam.
You will bout as you practice.


Cheers,

FN Zebra
Bleeding Heartland Roller Derby (WFTDA)
Bloomington, Indianer

Offline Graeme

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Re: BB major AND IP minor?
« Reply #3 on: June 30, 2011, 08:33:14 am »
B only for the Major BB

no call for 'trying to call of the jam'

i have had this occur before, and i always send the Jammer if the Major has occured before the attempt to call the Jam off

Offline PackMan

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Re: BB major AND IP minor?
« Reply #4 on: June 30, 2011, 04:54:05 pm »
choice B) BB major, no call off......is what I did. 

On the way home I got to thinking that I might have missed a minor on the logic that lead was lost retroactively from the moment the penalty was committed.  If lead was lost when I called the penalty, as Mick suggested,  then it would seem that I should also have called off the jam in the same way that when 2 penalties are committed faster than you can call the first one, you call both penalties.

I'm probably overthinking this

Offline The Gorram Reaver

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Re: BB major AND IP minor?
« Reply #5 on: June 30, 2011, 07:57:44 pm »
choice B) BB major, no call off......is what I did. 

On the way home I got to thinking that I might have missed a minor on the logic that lead was lost retroactively from the moment the penalty was committed.  If lead was lost when I called the penalty, as Mick suggested,  then it would seem that I should also have called off the jam in the same way that when 2 penalties are committed faster than you can call the first one, you call both penalties.

I'm probably overthinking this

Probably, but don't sweat it.  ;)

One of the reasons we don't also assign the IP in cases like this is because when the Jammer signaled for the call-off she had every reason to expect she could still legally call it off.  Even if she fully expected to be sent to the penalty box for her action, she is still entitled to attempt a call-off until she has been directed off the track for the penalty.  If she had responded to the major penalty by moving off the track to report to the penalty box and then signaled to call it off, that would be a different sort of circumstance and then the IP penalty for an illegal call-off attempt would be appropriate.

Since you were the referee enforcing the major penalty, not calling the jam is the correct course of action.  If you have not already begun the jam-ending signal when the penalty is committed, enforcing the penalty is your first priority.  Once you have begun enforcing the penalty, follow through to the conclusion of that process.  If you are not the referee enforcing the major penalty & another referee is enforcing the penalty, and if you have responded to the Lead Jammer's signal to end the jam before you are aware another referee is sending her off for a major penalty, then it would be appropriate to let the call-off stand without issuing an additional penalty.
The Gorram Reaver
Mad Rollin' Dolls, Madison, WI

Offline PackMan

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Re: BB major AND IP minor?
« Reply #6 on: June 30, 2011, 11:45:42 pm »
thanks all for that re-enforcement and explanation

 

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