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Author Topic: captain or pivot  (Read 7154 times)

Offline mick hawkins

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captain or pivot
« on: March 10, 2009, 06:06:25 am »
under the "minor penalties" section 6.3.2.2 states...
If no one player can be singled out to receive the penalty, it will go the team Captain or Pivot.

with this in mind i have a couple of questions:

1. it's not stated that for MAJOR penalties "If no one player can be singled out to receive the penalty, it will go the team Captain or Pivot." but can that still be the case? (i gave a major to a captain at our last game when the jam had to be called off due to too many players and the pack refs couldnt pull one off before the jammers entered the pack)

2. is there a way to determine (or some kind of convention for) whether its the Captain or the Pivot who should receive such a penalty? if not it seems problematic that the refs can arbitrarily decide which of the two players gets the penalty. not to mention if the captain also happens to be jammer at the time  :-\


after previously thinking the captain should be ultimately responsible and that the rules listed captain first (so i considered captain to be the first option) - i now think (after our game on the weekend) that penalising the pivot (who could be considered to control the team on the track at the time) is a better choice for such a penalty, and in the absence of a pivot the penalty could then go to the captain

i'm keen to hear your thoughts



« Last Edit: March 10, 2009, 06:23:24 am by mick »
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Offline noidd

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Re: captain or pivot
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2009, 01:34:38 pm »
1. it's not stated that for MAJOR penalties "If no one player can be singled out to receive the penalty, it will go the team Captain or Pivot." but can that still be the case? (i gave a major to a captain at our last game when the jam had to be called off due to too many players and the pack refs couldnt pull one off before the jammers entered the pack)

If you rules don't say you can apply a major penalty-by-proxy then I wouldn't do it.

Quote
2. is there a way to determine (or some kind of convention for) whether its the Captain or the Pivot who should receive such a penalty? if not it seems problematic that the refs can arbitrarily decide which of the two players gets the penalty. not to mention if the captain also happens to be jammer at the time  :-\

I have yet to see a jam start with too many players on the track that hasn't been resolved before the jammer reaches the pack so I've never see this happen in practice.  I guess the pack reffs we work with are pretty sharp in that regard.

However, I share your concern.

Personally, I think that if the pack refs have not waved off a skater before the jammers reach the pack then it should be the refs that get the major for blowing the jam dead :D

Given this and given that having the jammer out of play has such a significant affect on gameplay I would really not want to give that penalty to the captain if she was the jammer.  I don't believe that that gameplay was the intent of the rules.

What I would suggest:

1) Give to the pivot (it's a rotating role).
2) Give to the captain (if not the jammer).
3) Give to the second captain, ie - alternate.  Even if that player is not on the track.
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Offline the pantichrist

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Re: captain or pivot
« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2009, 08:41:28 pm »

Personally, I think that if the pack refs have not waved off a skater before the jammers reach the pack then it should be the refs that get the major for blowing the jam dead :D

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Offline Miss Trie

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Re: captain or pivot
« Reply #3 on: March 14, 2009, 07:11:19 pm »
under the "minor penalties" section 6.3.2.2 states...
If no one player can be singled out to receive the penalty, it will go the team Captain or Pivot.

with this in mind i have a couple of questions:

1. it's not stated that for MAJOR penalties "If no one player can be singled out to receive the penalty, it will go the team Captain or Pivot." but can that still be the case? (i gave a major to a captain at our last game when the jam had to be called off due to too many players and the pack refs couldnt pull one off before the jammers entered the pack)

I've never been in a situation where a jam had to be stopped for too many skaters on the track.  We've always gotten them off of the track before that was necessary.

I would issue the penalty to the pivot. I would consider the pivot "in control" of the team on the track & most responsible for making sure her teams numbers are right. And as stated, the pivot is a position that is present in every jam (sans her being in the box).

If the pivot is in the box, then I would issue it to the captain no matter what position she was skating in.

In the off chance a team chooses not to field a pivot (or the skater forgets her helmet panty) I would issue it to the captain.

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Offline Johnny Zebra

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Re: captain or pivot
« Reply #4 on: March 14, 2009, 08:40:48 pm »
If the pivot is in the box, then I would issue it to the captain no matter what position she was skating in.


Why? You can still issue a penalty to the pivot if she's in the box.

If it's because she's not on the track, it's a moot point whether she was actually involved in the action or not -- the penalty is being given to the pivot or captain because no individual can be singled out as at fault.

~j.z.
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Offline JoeXCore

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Re: captain or pivot
« Reply #5 on: March 14, 2009, 08:48:54 pm »
Hey Zebra, what do you do if neither the captain or the pivot are on the track (including in the box) at all?
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Offline Cliquework

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Re: captain or pivot
« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2009, 03:54:05 am »
That sounds like an instance where we're seeing the precise reason the rule says "Captain or Pivot". If neither are on the track, then Captain. The role comes with the responsibility I suppose.
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Offline Johnny Zebra

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Re: captain or pivot
« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2009, 01:55:07 pm »
Hey Zebra, what do you do if neither the captain or the pivot are on the track (including in the box) at all?

On the rare occasion that might happen (1. You have no pivot fielded or in the box, 2. a penalty has to be called where there is no obvious person to assign it to), I'd assign it to the Captain. If (even rarer, given the circumstances above) it's the Captain's fourth and she's not on the track, she'd start the next jam in the box.


~j.z.
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