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Author Topic: Leaving the box during lineup, minor or major Illegal Procedure?  (Read 20530 times)

Offline mick hawkins

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Re: Leaving the box during lineup, minor or major Illegal Procedure?
« Reply #30 on: October 12, 2011, 03:25:11 am »
IMO the language is very clear that if the skater leaves during a Team Time Out or Official Time Out, its a minor.   

The language elsewhere is also very clear that if she leaves the penalty box early, its a Major. 

If a skater left during the 30 seconds in between jams to run to her line up and talk with them briefly, I'd issue the Major.

Actually... I dont think the rules say that "clearly" at all.
They do say...
[rule]The following penalties are addressed in detail in the sections listed below. These sections hold specific examples that are to be followed explicitly. Illegal actions not specified below must be penalized using these specifics as guiding examples.[/rule]

Using 6.13.13 as a guiding example for a skater leaving the penalty box while a jam is NOT in progress, I think it's more than reasonable to issue a minor for a skater leaving the box between jams if she doesn't join the next jam.

I don't see how there's major impact for such an action... but am keen to have it explained

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Offline Stanarchy

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Re: Leaving the box during lineup, minor or major Illegal Procedure?
« Reply #31 on: October 12, 2011, 03:40:25 am »
Anyway, what I'm doing is more like of an inductive study of the rule set.  Contrast and compare the specific examples of minor penalties given in the rule set (6.13.13, 6.13.14 and 6.13.15) to examples in the major penalty section (6.13.25 and 6.13.27).  What's similar between those penalties?  What's different?  What matters?  When in doubt downgrade as directed under 9.3 so that you don't overcall the game.  

The problem with applying a strict rule book based ruling here (i.e. 6.13.25 to either situation presented in this thread) is that it doesn't consider the context of the scenario.  Considering both situations in the broader context of the rules and my tacit cultural knowledge of the game all lead me to conclude a minor should be issued.

This sounds the most right to me...  Situationally, leaving the box during the 30-second break between jams has the same impact on the gameplay as leaving the box during a TTO or OTO - Minor (at best).  And the preface to Section 6 does state :
[Rule]These sections hold specific examples that are to be followed explicitly. Illegal actions not specified below must be penalized using these specifics as guiding examples.[/rule]

And if we want to go and push this thread in the direction of ridiculous...   Nothing in the rules (that I could find) states that the skater is allowed to leave the box during the break between periods...  Should we then give the skater who is in the box at the end of the first period and leaves it for a break - a Major per 6.13.25 (exiting the box early IP).....?

Edit: Mick beat me to it...

Offline mick hawkins

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Re: Leaving the box during lineup, minor or major Illegal Procedure?
« Reply #32 on: October 12, 2011, 03:51:01 am »
Anyway, what I'm doing is more like of an inductive study of the rule set.  Contrast and compare the specific examples of minor penalties given in the rule set (6.13.13, 6.13.14 and 6.13.15) to examples in the major penalty section (6.13.25 and 6.13.27).  What's similar between those penalties?  What's different?  What matters?  When in doubt downgrade as directed under 9.3 so that you don't overcall the game. 

The problem with applying a strict rule book based ruling here (i.e. 6.13.25 to either situation presented in this thread) is that it doesn't consider the context of the scenario.  Considering both situations in the broader context of the rules and my tacit cultural knowledge of the game all lead me to conclude a minor should be issued.
 

This is what I was trying to say... just no-where near as well.

+1
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Offline Darkjester

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Re: Leaving the box during lineup, minor or major Illegal Procedure?
« Reply #33 on: October 12, 2011, 04:41:55 am »
Except that the rules state

[rule]6.13.25A skater exiting the penalty box before her penalty time finishes. (Note: If the penalty box official instructs the skater to leave early, this penalty does not apply.)[/rule]


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Offline bjmacke

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Re: Leaving the box during lineup, minor or major Illegal Procedure?
« Reply #34 on: October 12, 2011, 05:09:34 am »
Let's note that the better part of valor is discretion and think for a minute. Some thought exercises since this is the hypothetical area of the board:

- What motivated the exit from the box?
- Is she coming back?

Always assuming ignorance before malice, I'd hope that a skater leaving during a lineup is just confused. This could be confirmed by a relatively appropriate, "color, number, you still have penalty time to serve." or even an emotive "WHY YOU LEAVE ME SO SOOON??" if that's your style. Point being is that if a skater mistakenly leaves the box, she has the ability to correct it and only see a minor.

If it's apparent she has no intention of coming back, then maybe a major penalty makes sense. Maybe. I'm willing to be The Nice Guy and give them until the jam start whistle to fix the problem; but it should be apparent relatively quickly if a skater leaves the box and isn't willing to come back and serve the rest of their time.

And you might even be able to offload that decision by calling an OTO and having the head ref make the call. Because nothing says "appropriate use of OTO" like a skater leaving the box between jams and not coming back.
also known as Apron, if you didn't know already.

 

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