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Author Topic: skater assessment  (Read 6819 times)

Offline fiona poppins

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skater assessment
« on: October 24, 2011, 09:23:58 pm »

Offline J. Ref K.

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Re: skater assessment
« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2011, 09:43:29 pm »
What is the intent of this assessment? 

Are you gauging how your refs are to perform gear checks on the skaters?  This may need to be chronologically moved to the first section of the assessment (separate from the skater positions and skating checks).

Is it a table-top discussion of what to look for at the jam start and/or during the jam itself... or is this how you are taking notes on new refs during scrimmages and bouts?

It may be beneficial to have some notes on the applicable rules for reference, if it is a pre-game/pre-bout table-top meeting (so that you don't have to search for the reference during the discussions that will inevitably take place).

Those are just some initial thoughts.  I'm sure there will be more help forthcoming...
"Leadership and learning are indispensable to each other."  -JFK

Offline Megapickle

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Re: skater assessment
« Reply #2 on: October 24, 2011, 11:26:54 pm »
I second all of JRK's questions. Would love to understand the purpose of this.

But in the meantime, I'll add some small technical corrections:

"High Blocking" is not just as simple as "automatic major". Pay attention to the exact wording of Major HB: it requires initial contact to the head. So a hit that starts at the receiver's chest, then slides up to her chin is legal, as long as it doesn't meet the "intentional, negligent, or reckless" criteria of HB Expulsion.

"Which way is the skater facing" is not relevant to reffing. It's always about the parts of the body she hits or hits with, and the direction & position she's moving along the track. You asked & had this answered a couple weeks ago.

"Proximity" isn't relevant in blocking. That's a pack definition concept. You might replace it in your discussion with "Established/Temporary/Trajectory/Position"

Hip position does determine everything you mentioned, except Out Of Bounds, which is all about contact with the floor.

Skates aren't "safety equipment", so not within our jurisdiction. The only time we care about skate failure is when it leaves debris on the track that other skaters will trip on. During pre-bout equipment check, because some leagues have given skaters false expectations that we'll always check them, I do generally say something along the lines of "Now would be a good time to double-check your toe-stops are tight", but that's just a courtesy.

And finally, the numbering system makes sense in the 43-page rule book, but it's just pointlessly distracting in this single-page list.

Offline mick hawkins

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Re: skater assessment
« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2011, 12:19:03 am »
I don't understand the list at all.

Instead of trying to invent resources for your Refs, I recommend you start with the WFTDA Officiating Manual

... and encourage all your Refs to get a copy each.
Sun State Roller Girls (WFTDA Apprentice League)
Brisbane, Australia

Offline fiona poppins

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Re: skater assessment
« Reply #4 on: October 25, 2011, 08:27:56 am »
aright the piont of the assessment is for lets says a speed skater fresh off the rink looking for something fun to to do he wants to ref derby he has never seen derby and knows nothing.
where do you tell him to begin
he reads the rules and what how do you teach him to apply the rules to a bout. what do you tell him to do first.
As a brand new ref teaching mostly myself i had to ask what things do i need to look for when i amm calling a bout
wfdta says that first and for most i must ensure safety then i must look at game play.

SO as a brand new ref i start at the head.
 i check equipment first because wftda says safety first . by equipment check i mean mouth guard in, helmet strapped. by working order i mean appears to meet track safety standards. ( with a visual check) when checking the helmet i would note if there is a panty  stripped(pivot) or starred(jammmer) or if they are a blocker and have a bare helmet. ( nuggets of info Pivot and jammmer can exchange panty, only piviots can line up on pivot line , all other blockers must start behind pivots hips, exceptiion other piviot)( jammer is only skater who can score jammer is not part of pack)
actully making my self aware of the postion of the head is it down is it up is about to head but an another player? i have to now where the haed begans to judge intition.  as a new ref one of the skils i should understand is the "heirarchy of calls" (not sure if that is the exact right term) but the idea if a girl headbutts someone  while she is out of play i call the head but not out of play. (Nugget of info HIgh blocking or blocking to the head _any block with inital contact above shoulders major only) if i see this call my assemment stops it is time to take action . the rationale is so there can be no question as to why. which way the skater is facing makes me aware of the legal blocking/target  zone. like the head the back is of limts to hitting it is also part of the cns and we do not want to break it. which way she is skating( nugget of info skater may not block while skating clockwise, derby direction is counter clock wise, for a block or hit to be legal must skate in counter clock wise/derby driection  ) Initation becuase the head is one of the parts of the body that canot be use in blocking or hitting  it is a safety issue, when making these calls i want acuratly judge both intent, initation.

next i move down the body to shoulders, forearms, hands
once again i check equipment the skaters in my league like to tape their pads so i always take a quick look and make sure the tape is secure i does not plan to come off after the jam is started.  Both the target/blocking zones begin at the shoulders. i should check position and expect to see initiation. (nugget of info Legal taget zone-allowed to be hit  legal blocking zone-  includes back-  elbows should be tucked  bent and statrionary_0 up, down or back and forth movement, arm extension indicate intitaion, hands may not grab or hold opponent, no red rovering) Postion of shoulders helps me determine initation, when where and how does initaion occur (nugget of info to make the call i must see the entire event beganing with initation, if i am uncertain if call is a minor or major(benifit of doubt ) i call minor, initiator of the block is always responsible.)
proxcimity- where is the skater in realation to other skaters/ was she in the pack was she in the engament zone( nuggets of info out of play(20 ft from front/rear most pack skater)out of play  blocker is void--any engament even passive/positional block may result in penaltiy, blocker must yeild to jammer, skaters must enter pack the way they left--skating ahead must fall back----skating behind must run forward,    when jammer is outside engament zone she may only engage opposing jammer)
impact? was action taken by skater leagel? if there was a penalty did the recieving skater loss realative postion, loss her balance or fall over? was game play halted, hindered, disrupted ? was  team given an unfair advantage?(ie intentioal pack destruction was the pack destroyed for the sole porpose of scoring )
blocking a target zone are separted at first because i want to be aware that the are two different things.
next i move to the hips
doing all the same things over again if a skater is wearing extra pading this could mean she is a new skater or maybe does not feell ready yet to take the hit or who knows what else but as a ref and saftey being my first concern i want to know if a skater is using extra padding for any reason.
Hips determine position in the following ways
pivots on the line
relative position
jammer passing blocker
in the engament zone or in the pack
out of play
nuggets of info listed above 
hips are in the legal target/blocking zone so i repeat the same questions about initiation, proximity (extra important because we measure form hips)
  for knees equipment same as above  for position is skater using normal skating motion? is her knee on the floor? does skater have an unique style? (nuggets of info low block is a safety call, habitual contact(three times or better) skating motion,  falling--even small--that affects game and safety,  low blocking includes tripping regardless of intent)
finally skates  no for equipment check are they quads are they tied are laces dragging on the floor . position of the skate is the skater in bounds? is she straddling? normal skating motion?     Nuggets of info skate may not touch ground outside track boundary, straddling one skate in one skate out , may not better position by straddling, must be up right to cut the  the track , in air is out of play, )

most of our ref staff is brand new less then one year, we need a place to start we need to know what questions to ask so that we can make good judgements. and yes if i was watching another ref i would see if he was looking for all these things or what he was looking for that i was not.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2011, 11:03:34 am by fiona poppins »

Offline J. Ref K.

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Re: skater assessment
« Reply #5 on: October 25, 2011, 05:56:22 pm »

I would almost recommend reaching out to a nearby league (Naughty Pines? Jackson Hole? Rapid City? Denver??) and seeing if any of the refs can come out for some ref practice with you and your new team.  Another very valuable resource is FGU:

Best of luck.
"Leadership and learning are indispensable to each other."  -JFK

Offline Darkjester

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Re: skater assessment
« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2011, 10:45:26 pm »
If you are planning on having your refs check ALL of those items in the 30 seconds between Jams you'll find out that you miss:

Who is on 3 Minors..
Is there skaters in the Penalty Box?

A Pre-Bout equipment check is for the most part sufficient unless you happen to see "hey, that skaters helmet is unbuckled."

For training new refs the first thing to do is get them used to skating.
After they are used to skating get them used to skating while looking at the pack.

Work on the rules; and then the application of the rules.

Pack Definition
In Play/ Out of Play
Legal Blocking Zone/Legal Target Zone

And definitely what Mick said, invest in the Officiating Manuals.
Madness Tolls
Beach Brawl Sk8R Dolls
Fort Walton Beach FL


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