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Author Topic: NON-WFTDA referee certification information  (Read 60187 times)

Offline Noah Tall

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Re: NON-WFTDA referee certification information
« Reply #45 on: October 07, 2011, 02:17:45 am »
Well, the first place to start would be to start raising money.  A tournament can cost many thousands of dollars to put on.  Once you get the money, then start building your behind the scenes staff.  These are going to be the people who are willing to work all day, or all weekend at the tournament, for no pay and little thanks.  Once you get the commitment from these folks, then you start building a prep team.  These are the folks who will get your advertising out, find sponsors, secure a location, get beer, sign contracts, and do all the little things that need to be done before a bout can be planned.  Finally, once you've found a venue and have the money and have an excited bout production crew in place, you can start inviting teams.  Once you get your teams committed (and remember they must be WFTDA or Apprentice Leagues), then you put out a call for refs and NSOs.

It's a huge commitment, and a hella lot of work, and you'll be lucky if your league breaks even.  But, if done properly, it can also be a lot of fun.
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"We may not be skilled, but at least we're impartial!"

Offline fiona poppins

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Re: NON-WFTDA referee certification information
« Reply #46 on: October 07, 2011, 05:04:30 am »
really i was going to start with standards of practice and rules then . i was going to start taking application for ref staff.  i assumed that this unique chance would be very sought after by refs .I be leave the ref will encourage their teams to participate. ( so if the ref gets the invite their league gets the invite). plus i thought apprentice leagues could not be used in evals. only Wftda leagues.  the reason for keeping only to 12 teams limits the number of refs who can come.  Any other refs who want to participate or volunteer for the work can. it would be a great networking. a opens doors to receive invites to sanctioned or regulation bouts. I agree with the raising money though does any one no how much it actually cost or what cost i could expect?

Offline Interrobang Yerdehd

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Re: NON-WFTDA referee certification information
« Reply #47 on: October 07, 2011, 07:20:32 am »
I think you're overestimating the influence refs have on their associated teams. Traveling any significant distance is costly. Adding a ref or two to a group of maybe 12 skaters already traveling to a given destination is fairly easy. Adding just 9 skaters to a group of 3 travelling refs, though, is quadrupling the amount of money needed.

Book teams first, then get refs.

Getting the all the teams and not having enough refs would be annoying. Getting all the refs and not having enough teams would defeat the whole purpose.
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Offline Noah Tall

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Re: NON-WFTDA referee certification information
« Reply #48 on: October 07, 2011, 11:55:04 am »
WFTDA Ref Rep
WFTDA AP Area Coordinator
Arkansas

"We may not be skilled, but at least we're impartial!"

Offline SeerSin

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Re: NON-WFTDA referee certification information
« Reply #49 on: October 07, 2011, 01:24:19 pm »
There's a much easier way to receive evaluations : as others have stated travel to nearby WFTDA or Apprentice league games. Work their bouts, get to know the skaters and referees there and request evaluations. Referees setting up a tournament "by the refs for the refs" is a little disturbing to me. The game is about the players, I don't see it working running a tournament only for the purposes of referee evaluations.

There are a number of tournaments already that are fantastic opportunities for evaluations. These tournaments already have a high participation from WFTDA teams who want to play. ECDX comes to mind. While I haven't reffed ECDX there are plenty of evaluations to be had. Clover Cup, Governor's Cup, Wild West Showdown, Spring Roll, and I know there's more. Many officials have attended these events for the purpose of learning from experienced referees and receiving evaluations. I realize evaluations can be hard to come by, harder for some because of geography. In those cases training hard and then going to an event like ECDX and performing well is an alternative to getting evaluations 1 game at a time.

And as Noah stated a bout between two Apprentice Leagues is a Regulation bout, assuming all WFTDA Rules are followed.

Offline James Harper

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Re: NON-WFTDA referee certification information
« Reply #50 on: October 07, 2011, 01:43:51 pm »
Ok, so other than the big five what is the easiest way to locate the tournaments being held. I have made great strides in traveling to WFTDA leagues and learning so much. As all WFTDA refs have stated it costs, but the benefits out weigh the costs and time commitment. Even if you can only travel once a month or once every 6 months. The most important thing is be willing to be educated and take notes (if you are watching and not refereeing). AS stated previously, make contact with leagues as far as your budget will let you go and be willing to NSO or be an alternate to let them get to know you. I have learned more in the last 6 months than I have in my 4 years as a referee.

A quick thank you to the leagues and referees (no names to keep you from receiving a flood of emails, you know who you are) that have helped guide me thus far and I look forward to working with many more. I am testing for WFTDA this weekend..skating and written....nervous but excited. Next step is more evals :)
These are merely my interpretations and opinions. I am here to gain and share knowledge.

If I am mistaken or calling incorrectly I am happy to be educated.

Offline Bishop

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Re: NON-WFTDA referee certification information
« Reply #51 on: October 07, 2011, 01:49:32 pm »
Ok, so other than the big five what is the easiest way to locate the tournaments being held. I have made great strides in traveling to WFTDA leagues and learning so much. As all WFTDA refs have stated it costs, but the benefits out weigh the costs and time commitment. Even if you can only travel once a month or once every 6 months. The most important thing is be willing to be educated and take notes (if you are watching and not refereeing). AS stated previously, make contact with leagues as far as your budget will let you go and be willing to NSO or be an alternate to let them get to know you. I have learned more in the last 6 months than I have in my 4 years as a referee.

A quick thank you to the leagues and referees (no names to keep you from receiving a flood of emails, you know who you are) that have helped guide me thus far and I look forward to working with many more. I am testing for WFTDA this weekend..skating and written....nervous but excited. Next step is more evals :)

Good luck with your assessments!  Be aware that how many times you take the cert rules test is recorded on the evaluation sheet.  I don't know for certain that it's held against you if it takes you multilpe tries to pass.  However, it would make sense that they would.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2011, 01:53:32 pm by Bishop »
Recommended Resources:WFTDA Rules Central, WFTDA officiating & Successful Sports Officiating
Propose rule changes at timeout.wftda.com.

Offline reflmao

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Re: NON-WFTDA referee certification information
« Reply #52 on: October 07, 2011, 02:43:38 pm »
Be aware that how many times you take the cert rules test is recorded on the evaluation sheet.

But also...   It's a hard test and I know of only a few people who pass on their first time.
 
RCRD, Rochester, NY

Offline James Harper

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Re: NON-WFTDA referee certification information
« Reply #53 on: October 07, 2011, 02:49:05 pm »
Thanks all. This is round two for the written and first for skating...:\
These are merely my interpretations and opinions. I am here to gain and share knowledge.

If I am mistaken or calling incorrectly I am happy to be educated.

Offline Bishop

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Re: NON-WFTDA referee certification information
« Reply #54 on: October 07, 2011, 02:52:59 pm »
Be aware that how many times you take the cert rules test is recorded on the evaluation sheet.

But also...   It's a hard test and I know of only a few people who pass on their first time.
 

And ZH is an awesome place to study for it!  At least that's what I credit to my passing the test on the first attempt on two different versions of the test.   ;)

As you study the rules, Q & A's, Publications and Officiating Manual, write down every question that you have that you can't find an good answer for.  Then search on ZH for the answer. If it's not here then post your question. 
« Last Edit: October 07, 2011, 03:11:29 pm by Bishop »
Recommended Resources:WFTDA Rules Central, WFTDA officiating & Successful Sports Officiating
Propose rule changes at timeout.wftda.com.

Offline fiona poppins

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Re: NON-WFTDA referee certification information
« Reply #55 on: October 07, 2011, 05:04:59 pm »
There's a much easier way to receive evaluations : as others have stated travel to nearby WFTDA or Apprentice league games. Work their bouts, get to know the skaters and referees there and request evaluations. Referees setting up a tournament "by the refs for the refs" is a little disturbing to me. The game is about the players, I don't see it working running a tournament only for the purposes of referee evaluations.

There are a number of tournaments already that are fantastic opportunities for evaluations. These tournaments already have a high participation from WFTDA teams who want to play. ECDX comes to mind. While I haven't reffed ECDX there are plenty of evaluations to be had. Clover Cup, Governor's Cup, Wild West Showdown, Spring Roll, and I know there's more. Many officials have attended these events for the purpose of learning from experienced referees and receiving evaluations. I realize evaluations can be hard to come by, harder for some because of geography. In those cases training hard and then going to an event like ECDX and performing well is an alternative to getting evaluations 1 game at a time.

And as Noah stated a bout between two Apprentice Leagues is a Regulation bout, assuming all WFTDA Rules are followed.

i think you misunderstand me our league is just forming and learning. as there ref i want to help them grow and be competive on a national level . if i do not call the game the same way as it would be called during a  regulation or sanctioned bout then i put them at a disadvantage. and i agree it is about the skaters but a ref staff who understands the game correctly can only help.  what i mean by by the refs for the refs is certification is something we have to earn our selves. my education as a ref has mostly been an Independent study sort of thing . i watch and ask questions of my other staff no of who are certified or have been doing this for very long . sometimes they tell me wrong. this sight has been amazing and i try to take full advantage.  as a ref this tournament could help me to learn to do it right the first time and provide the networking i need to continue on the path for my certification. it would be a chance for me to prove myself or fall on my face and get back up to learn the better way.   
  the closest tournament i found to me is in texas or california. the number of sanctioned and regulation bouts is less with in a five state radius there are only 12 teams who belong to the wftda league.   I am already looking for a mentor and will begin with the nso route for certification. but some ref have said that it is better to have twice as many evals that wftda ask for  when you apply i am not even sure that there are that many approved bouts in my five state radius.  of the 12 teams in my five state radius less then half of them have certified ref staff for me to mentor with. i am a solver and when i set my mind to something i find a path to get it done.   any tournament can be a learning experience. but the masters tourny could be a celebration of a difficult job done well and taught well be those who do it the best.  i want to learn from the best to be my best. I thought other refs  would understand.

Offline Professor Murder

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Re: NON-WFTDA referee certification information
« Reply #56 on: October 08, 2011, 01:22:25 am »
Good luck with your assessments!  Be aware that how many times you take the cert rules test is recorded on the evaluation sheet.  I don't know for certain that it's held against you if it takes you multilpe tries to pass.  However, it would make sense that they would.

Like anything else, it is taken into account in the broader context of the overall Certification application.  It is a factor, but it's one of the less significant factors to be sure.

While I haven't reffed ECDX

This is criminal.  You need to change that.  June 22-23-24, 2012.
Philly Roller Girls
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Offline Noah Tall

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Re: NON-WFTDA referee certification information
« Reply #57 on: October 08, 2011, 02:28:28 am »
Yeah, it took me three times to pass.  I was thisclose to passing the other two times, but only on the second time did I have anyone to go over the test with me to explain what I got wrong.  Having someone who has taken the test and can explain your mistakes makes a big difference in your retake score. :) 
WFTDA Ref Rep
WFTDA AP Area Coordinator
Arkansas

"We may not be skilled, but at least we're impartial!"

Offline SeerSin

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Re: NON-WFTDA referee certification information
« Reply #58 on: October 08, 2011, 02:02:55 pm »
While I haven't reffed ECDX

This is criminal.  You need to change that.  June 22-23-24, 2012.

I'm on it, I'm going to try to make it for 2012.

Offline The Gorram Reaver

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Re: NON-WFTDA referee certification information
« Reply #59 on: October 09, 2011, 04:34:41 am »
i think you misunderstand me our league is just forming and learning. as there ref i want to help them grow and be competive on a national level . if i do not call the game the same way as it would be called during a  regulation or sanctioned bout then i put them at a disadvantage. and i agree it is about the skaters but a ref staff who understands the game correctly can only help.  what i mean by by the refs for the refs is certification is something we have to earn our selves. my education as a ref has mostly been an Independent study sort of thing . i watch and ask questions of my other staff no of who are certified or have been doing this for very long . sometimes they tell me wrong. this sight has been amazing and i try to take full advantage.  as a ref this tournament could help me to learn to do it right the first time and provide the networking i need to continue on the path for my certification. it would be a chance for me to prove myself or fall on my face and get back up to learn the better way.   
  the closest tournament i found to me is in texas or california. the number of sanctioned and regulation bouts is less with in a five state radius there are only 12 teams who belong to the wftda league.   I am already looking for a mentor and will begin with the nso route for certification. but some ref have said that it is better to have twice as many evals that wftda ask for  when you apply i am not even sure that there are that many approved bouts in my five state radius.  of the 12 teams in my five state radius less then half of them have certified ref staff for me to mentor with. i am a solver and when i set my mind to something i find a path to get it done.   any tournament can be a learning experience. but the masters tourny could be a celebration of a difficult job done well and taught well be those who do it the best.  i want to learn from the best to be my best. I thought other refs  would understand.
Fiona, I think we both understand your desire to learn & improve as well as sympathize with your current lack of resources.  We have all been there at some point in the past.  However, it's important to understand that we are also aware of the workings of the present system for becoming a certified official, and are aware of the challenges working within that system presents.  One of the most important things to keep in mind is that WFTDA has always been an organization operated under the principle of "by the skaters, for the skaters".  Attempting to draw leagues to a tournament "by the refs, for the refs" will likely meet with lukewarm interest at best from any teams that are WFTDA-affiliated.  You've already seen that support among the refs who work within that community and respect it's boundaries and guiding principles may not be as enthusiastic about the idea of such a tournament as you would like.

I don't mean to discourage you from attempting to organize a tournament.  It would be wonderful if you did so.  However, I expect you will have much better success with hosting such an event, which will ultimately lead to better success in your goal of providing an opportunity for officials to network, grow, and learn, if you do not approach it from the "for the officials" angle.
The Gorram Reaver
Mad Rollin' Dolls, Madison, WI

 

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