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Author Topic: Jumping vs Gross Misconduct  (Read 10547 times)

Offline Ballistic Whistle

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Jumping vs Gross Misconduct
« on: March 23, 2009, 09:45:23 am »
How so you determine whether a player jumping - this may be a full on jump over the apex, or even just a skip to get through on the inside - has warranted a Gross Misconduct major? 6.2.13.3 seems to cover any instance whereby, as part of a jump, you make contact with an opponent.

What if the opponent is instigating a block on a jumping player? Is that still a Gross Misconduct on the jumper? I'm trying to ascertain if the wording of this rule is intended to strongly discourage players from jumping due to it's "unsafe" nature.

6.2.13.3 Any contact with both skates off of the ground. Jumping and leaping contact is unsafe for the initiator and the receiver.

Offline noidd

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Re: Jumping vs Gross Misconduct
« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2009, 01:09:20 pm »
What if the opponent is instigating a block on a jumping player? Is that still a Gross Misconduct on the jumper? I'm trying to ascertain if the wording of this rule is intended to strongly discourage players from jumping due to it's "unsafe" nature.

6.2.13.3 Any contact with both skates off of the ground. Jumping and leaping contact is unsafe for the initiator and the receiver.

Jumping while being blocked certainly isn't going to make it easier for a player to resist its effects and should be discouraged from a coaching perspective but the rules do not prohibit it.

5.1.2 The skater who makes contact with a target zone of an opponent is considered the initiator of the block. The initiator of the block is always responsible for the legality of the contact.

However...

5.1.1.1 Counter-blocking is any motion/movement towards an oncoming block by the receiving skater which is designed to counteract an opponent's block. Counter-blocking is treated as blocking and held to the same standards and rules.

So, if you perceive the jumping being towards the incoming block that would considered a counter-block and, as per 5.1.1.1 illegal under the clause you quoted.
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Offline Ballistic Whistle

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Re: Jumping vs Gross Misconduct
« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2009, 06:15:16 pm »
The counter-block scenario I was trying to describe was one whereby the jumper is already in the air, when a blocker instigates a block on the jumper. Say, jumping the apex, and a blocker moves across to try and block the jumper's landing zone.

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Re: Jumping vs Gross Misconduct
« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2009, 06:22:08 pm »
The counter-block scenario I was trying to describe was one whereby the jumper is already in the air, when a blocker instigates a block on the jumper. Say, jumping the apex, and a blocker moves across to try and block the jumper's landing zone.

If the jumper is already in the air then their movement is fixed (subject to gravity), and with the possible exception of forearms or elbows I cannot conceive of how they might make "any motion/movement towards an oncoming block".

Offline Professor Murder

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Re: Jumping vs Gross Misconduct
« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2009, 06:24:10 pm »
The counter-block scenario I was trying to describe was one whereby the jumper is already in the air, when a blocker instigates a block on the jumper. Say, jumping the apex, and a blocker moves across to try and block the jumper's landing zone.

Legal eagle.
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Offline Jessticular Fortitude

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Re: Jumping vs Gross Misconduct
« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2009, 06:31:34 pm »
If Blocker A jumps towards Blocker B and hits her, that's an illegal block per
Quote
6.2.13.3 Any contact with both skates off of the ground. Jumping and leaping contact is unsafe for the initiator and the receiver.
however if Blocker B blocks Airborne Blocker A, that is NOT illegal, although I can't find where the rules explicitly say that.
Hey look, a search function! Right up there! No on the left

Perhaps we should all spend a little more time reading and a little less time making shit up.

Offline noidd

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Re: Jumping vs Gross Misconduct
« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2009, 08:52:54 pm »
The counter-block scenario I was trying to describe was one whereby the jumper is already in the air, when a blocker instigates a block on the jumper. Say, jumping the apex, and a blocker moves across to try and block the jumper's landing zone.

Legal but Stupid  ;D
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Offline Ballistic Whistle

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Re: Jumping vs Gross Misconduct
« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2009, 10:53:38 pm »
The counter-block scenario I was trying to describe was one whereby the jumper is already in the air, when a blocker instigates a block on the jumper. Say, jumping the apex, and a blocker moves across to try and block the jumper's landing zone.

Legal but Stupid  ;D
That scenario is based on an action I witnessed at practice. Jumper tried to jump the apex from behind BlockerA with the intention of landing on the track in a position ahead of BlockerA. As she did this, BlockerB noticed and moved into a position ahead of BlockerA on the inside line with the intention of making the jumper's landing an uncomfortable one, or at most forcing her to land off the track.

My presumption based on this scenario is that BlockerB's action is legal, but I'm trying to ascertain if the Jumper's action is a Gross Misconduct or not.

I also presume that a similar scenario to the one above whereby BlockerB was already in the landing zone prior to the jumper taking off would result in a Gross Misconduct as attempting to jump into a position already occupied by an opposing skater is a block - intentionally or not.

Offline Major Wood

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Re: Jumping vs Gross Misconduct
« Reply #8 on: March 23, 2009, 10:59:25 pm »
Did you, in your mind, say "Oh sweet jesus!"? (Thanks Ref Neck)
If it is a gross misconduct penalty, you would likely have no doubt whatsoever.
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Re: Jumping vs Gross Misconduct
« Reply #9 on: March 24, 2009, 12:18:04 am »
In that same vein, if the "Airborne" skater, makes illegal contact with the blocker who moved into space.
i.e. the Blocker already made it into position and the Airborne skater came down on top of her, with an illegal blocking zone, or to an illegal target zone ( top of the shoulders, head,  knee, etc.,)

Its still liable for a Gross Major, though probably just a Major unless you pull the "Oh, Sweet Jesus" thought.
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Offline mick hawkins

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Re: Jumping vs Gross Misconduct
« Reply #10 on: March 24, 2009, 03:54:39 am »
What if the opponent is instigating a block on a jumping player?

whoa deja vu... one of our skaters actually asked this not long ago

the rules offer no restriction on blocking a player who is in the air
as long as the block is legal blocking zones contacting legal target zones you can block player who is in the air.

my understanding is the rule is only to stop (discourage?) players from performing a block with both skates off the ground
not the other way around



« Last Edit: March 24, 2009, 03:57:44 am by mick »
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Offline Stegoscorus

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Re: Jumping vs Gross Misconduct
« Reply #11 on: March 24, 2009, 04:10:23 am »

my understanding is the rule is only to stop (discourage?) players from performing a block with both skates off the ground
not the other way around


Correct.  All the refs on my league had previously interpreted it as going both ways, but we recently sought clarification, and you've got it exactly right, Mick. 
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Offline mick hawkins

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Re: Jumping vs Gross Misconduct
« Reply #12 on: March 24, 2009, 04:46:52 am »

my understanding is the rule is only to stop (discourage?) players from performing a block with both skates off the ground
not the other way around


Correct.  All the refs on my league had previously interpreted it as going both ways, but we recently sought clarification, and you've got it exactly right, Mick. 


cool... thanks for confirming
« Last Edit: March 24, 2009, 04:49:23 am by mick »
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Offline Catch22

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Re: Jumping vs Gross Misconduct
« Reply #13 on: March 25, 2009, 02:56:02 am »
Jess, This would cover it in a round about way...

6.2.4.9 If a player jumps, and ceases all contact with the ground, her prior in-bounds/outof-
bounds status is maintained until contact with the ground re-establishes in-bounds/outof-
bounds status.


Catch

If Blocker A jumps towards Blocker B and hits her, that's an illegal block per
Quote
6.2.13.3 Any contact with both skates off of the ground. Jumping and leaping contact is unsafe for the initiator and the receiver.
however if Blocker B blocks Airborne Blocker A, that is NOT illegal, although I can't find where the rules explicitly say that.

Offline bronco

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Re: Jumping vs Gross Misconduct
« Reply #14 on: March 25, 2009, 10:19:38 pm »
If the rules made blocks to airborne skaters illegal, then any skater about to be hit would jump and the blocker would receive a penalty.  "You can hit me, I just jumped" does not work. (thanks Hunter)

So, hitting airborne skaters is legal and a technique used to counter a jammer the cuts the turn in the air.  If its the last blocker, and the jammer's hips are already past, the blocker can legally hit an hand,arm,elbow,shoulder (or any legal contact zone) and put the jammer out of bounds, forcing her to re-enter behind the blocker.  Otherwise, its a major for the jammer.

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