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Author Topic: Star pass after a 4th minor  (Read 7257 times)

Offline WillRyder

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Star pass after a 4th minor
« on: December 15, 2011, 05:10:15 pm »
At our last bout we had a situation where a pivot got a minor called from an OPR and it turned out to be a 4th minor.  Before the penalty was communicated in, the pivot received a legal star pass from the jammer.  The jam also ended soon after with the pivot/jammer in the box. After the jam it was decided the skater should have been sent to the box as a pivot, so he was allowed to remove the jammer panty and the team could field another jammer for the next jam.

Was this handled correctly?  If not, how should it have been handled?

Offline Stanarchy

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Re: Star pass after a 4th minor
« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2011, 07:33:40 pm »
Disclaimer : I am a LESS experienced ref trying to think the situation through out loud...

So the sequence of events they way I understand it is :

1) Pivot commits a Minor
2) Pivot receives a Star Pass
3) Minor is communicated to the Infield where it is determined to be the 4th minor

In an ideal world the Pivot would have been sent to the box immediately upon committing the 4th minor and would not receive the Star Pass, so would be "serving time" as a Pivot, not Jammer.

However, the following bolded piece of the rules makes me think that with the logistical restrictions of teh real world - the skater serves as whatever position he/she was in when the 4th is communicated (with the whistle and all...) :

[Rule]7.1.1.2 - When a skater has earned four minor penalties, that skater will be sent to the penalty box. A skater who commits any four minor penalties must serve one (1) minute at the time the fourth minor is assessed/communicated, according to the procedures defined in Section 7.3 - Penalty Enforcement Procedures.[/rule]

Offline WillRyder

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Re: Star pass after a 4th minor
« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2011, 08:37:54 pm »
You got the series of events correct.

I was also wondering about what should be done for the remaining part of the jam?  Is the Jammer then returned to being a Jammer?  Albeit not active?  What if the pivot be dropped the panty for the jammer (effectively 'not successfully completing the star pass"?) Could the jammer then recover it legally and reestablish active jammer status?

Offline Invader Jim

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Re: Star pass after a 4th minor
« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2011, 09:47:03 pm »
What if the pivot be dropped the panty for the jammer (effectively 'not successfully completing the star pass"?) Could the jammer then recover it legally and reestablish active jammer status?

[rule]3.5.5 - Jammer status is transferred when the Pivot is wearing the helmet cover on her helmet.[/rule]

[rule]3.5.6 - Once Jammer status is transferred, it cannot be transferred back to the original Jammer.[/rule]

[rule]3.5.8.3 - If a star pass cannot be completed for any reason, the Jammer may return the helmet cover to her own helmet and regain her active Jammer position, but not her Lead Jammer status (see Section 3.5.4 - Pass Procedure).[/rule]

If pass is legal but pivot drops it before putting it on, the jammer may be recover it and put it  back on to become an active jammer.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2011, 09:48:51 pm by Invader Jim »

Offline Darkjester

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Re: Star pass after a 4th minor
« Reply #4 on: December 18, 2011, 12:28:26 pm »
At our last bout we had a situation where a pivot got a minor called from an OPR and it turned out to be a 4th minor.  Before the penalty was communicated in, the pivot received a legal star pass from the jammer.  The jam also ended soon after with the pivot/jammer in the box. After the jam it was decided the skater should have been sent to the box as a pivot, so he was allowed to remove the jammer panty and the team could field another jammer for the next jam.

Was this handled correctly?  If not, how should it have been handled?


Until the Skater is sent off the track for the penalty, she's still legally on the track. 

She legally received the Jammer cover and transferred her status to that of the Jammer. In order it was 'then' noted she was on her fourth Penalty and it was THEN communicated to her as the Jammer that she was to exit the track. I would have kept her in the penalty box and had her serve the time as the Jammer.

To do otherwise opens up confusion as to whether it was an illegal star pass (since she was technically supposed to be off the track) so therefore the original jammer should be penalized for initiating a star pass to an illegal recipient.

Much cleaner to just send the 'was pivot-now penalized jammer' to the box.
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Offline Major Puddles

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Re: Star pass after a 4th minor
« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2012, 02:01:58 am »
She goes to the box as a jammer. If it had taken 30seconds to communicate the 4th (horrible, but it happens), and she had scored points, would those points still count? Of course they would. This is no different.

Offline ttjustice

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Re: Star pass after a 4th minor
« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2012, 04:38:00 pm »
Disclaimer : I am a LESS experienced ref trying to think the situation through out loud...

So the sequence of events they way I understand it is :

1) Pivot commits a Minor
2) Pivot receives a Star Pass
3) Minor is communicated to the Infield where it is determined to be the 4th minor

In an ideal world the Pivot would have been sent to the box immediately upon committing the 4th minor and would not receive the Star Pass, so would be "serving time" as a Pivot, not Jammer.

However, the following bolded piece of the rules makes me think that with the logistical restrictions of teh real world - the skater serves as whatever position he/she was in when the 4th is communicated (with the whistle and all...) :

[Rule]7.1.1.2 - When a skater has earned four minor penalties, that skater will be sent to the penalty box. A skater who commits any four minor penalties must serve one (1) minute at the time the fourth minor is assessed/communicated, according to the procedures defined in Section 7.3 - Penalty Enforcement Procedures.[/rule]

Can I ask about point#2- when you say she received the star pass, are you saying she has the jammer helmet cover in hand, or is the cover on her head?  It makes a difference since jammer position is not transferred until the cover is on her head.
Timothy T. Justice
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