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Author Topic: SOOB 6.2.9.4 - how strict are you with issuing this penalty?  (Read 35862 times)

Offline Bishop

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SOOB 6.2.9.4 - how strict are you with issuing this penalty?
« on: March 25, 2009, 02:51:11 am »

One thing I've been wondering about is how strict refs are or should be when issuing SOOB penalties.  In particular, I'd like to get insight on when to issue this penalty:

Minor Penalty
6.2.9.4 Skating out-of-bounds to maintain or increase speed.

At the present time, I issue this penalty when a skater skates out-of-bounds for about 15 feet.  I figure skaters ought to be able to get back to the track within 10 feet of going out-of-bounds.  If they have a lot of speed, they should dramatically slow down perhaps by means of a T-stop or controlled fall, and then get their tails back to the track before continuing play. 

How do you call it?  Can anyone offer insight into the intent of the rule?   

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Offline JoeXCore

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Re: SOOB 6.2.9.4 - how strict are you with issuing this penalty?
« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2009, 03:27:34 am »
I believe the idea is to prevent people from swinging out on the straights.
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Offline mick hawkins

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Re: SOOB 6.2.9.4 - how strict are you with issuing this penalty?
« Reply #2 on: March 25, 2009, 04:07:06 am »
if a skater goes OOB at all while she's maintaining speed around the corners -- we'll penalise her
doesnt matter how long she's out for - 6.2.9.4 says it's a penalty

we dont bother handing out a minor for every little step over the boundary that occurs though
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Offline DayGlo Divine

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Re: SOOB 6.2.9.4 - how strict are you with issuing this penalty?
« Reply #3 on: March 25, 2009, 04:29:56 am »

One thing I've been wondering about is how strict refs are or should be when issuing SOOB penalties.  In particular, I'd like to get insight on when to issue this penalty:

Minor Penalty
6.2.9.4 Skating out-of-bounds to maintain or increase speed.

At the present time, I issue this penalty when a skater skates out-of-bounds for about 15 feet.  I figure skaters ought to be able to get back to the track within 10 feet of going out-of-bounds.  If they have a lot of speed, they should dramatically slow down perhaps by means of a T-stop or controlled fall, and then get their tails back to the track before continuing play. 

How do you call it?  Can anyone offer insight into the intent of the rule?   

Just like any other rule, you look at every instance you see and say, "How does this impact the game?"

If a jammer swings a little wide during her sprints between passes and has a foot cross over the line as a result, or if a blocker briefly crosses the line while being blocked without cutting or blocking upon re-entry, that doesn't impact the game. No penalty.

If a skater stays out of bounds for a few strides because she wants to avoid a block or keep pace with the pack and enter exactly where she left, that has some impact on the game. Minor.

If an out-of-play blocker decides to cut into the infield before Turn 3 and enter after Turn 4 in order to catch up to the pack, or if a jammer does the same in order to put more space between herself and an opposing jammer who is right on her heels, that has a lot of impact on the game. Major.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2009, 01:27:05 pm by DayGlo Divine »
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Offline Rev. Riot

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Re: SOOB 6.2.9.4 - how strict are you with issuing this penalty?
« Reply #4 on: March 25, 2009, 04:31:19 am »
It's not a common penalty by any means. Coasting shouldn't ever constitute a SooB penalty. You're looking for someone to actually actively skate while out of bounds, and in doing so, gain an advantage that they wouldn't have had (or maintained an advantage) had they just coasted once they were out of bounds. For instance, skating alongside the person that knocked you out waiting for a space just behind or next to them to open up, that's a SooB penalty. Instead they should coast and drop back further. Sure, they only NEED to enter behind that one to avoid a cutting penalty, but that's why we have different penalties, different way to illegally use that space. As mentioned, creating a better circle by skating outside on the straightaways, this gives a Jammer an advantage, but doesn't shorten the track any, so it's a SooB, not a cutting penalty.

But really, these aren't called that much, if that answers your question.
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Offline mick hawkins

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Re: SOOB 6.2.9.4 - how strict are you with issuing this penalty?
« Reply #5 on: March 25, 2009, 04:34:24 am »

If a skater stays out of bounds for a few strides because she wants to avoid a block or keep pace with the pack and enter exactly where she left, that has some impact on the game. Minor.


dayglo... can you give me a bit more info on why you say this?
it's not something ive considered or heard of before

i thought that if a SOOB penalty is to be awarded - it's given when the skater goes OOB (eg. too much speed around the corners)
not after she's stayed out for a while to pick when/where she can re-enter
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Offline mick hawkins

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Re: SOOB 6.2.9.4 - how strict are you with issuing this penalty?
« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2009, 04:39:27 am »
It's not a common penalty by any means. Coasting shouldn't ever constitute a SooB penalty. You're looking for someone to actually actively skate while out of bounds, and in doing so, gain an advantage that they wouldn't have had (or maintained an advantage) had they just coasted once they were out of bounds. For instance, skating alongside the person that knocked you out waiting for a space just behind or next to them to open up, that's a SooB penalty. Instead they should coast and drop back further. Sure, they only NEED to enter behind that one to avoid a cutting penalty, but that's why we have different penalties, different way to illegally use that space. As mentioned, creating a better circle by skating outside on the straightaways, this gives a Jammer an advantage, but doesn't shorten the track any, so it's a SooB, not a cutting penalty.

But really, these aren't called that much, if that answers your question.

hang on a minute... i think i see a point of difference here

it sounds like you're saying SOOB penalties are awarded for skating while in the OOB area

yet - ive always understood that SOOB are awarded to a skater going from in-bounds to out-of-bounds

ive thought this because in the rules it says...


alll these rules speak to going from inbounds to the OOB area -- there's no mention of skating while being OOB

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Offline DayGlo Divine

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Re: SOOB 6.2.9.4 - how strict are you with issuing this penalty?
« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2009, 04:40:32 am »

If a skater stays out of bounds for a few strides because she wants to avoid a block or keep pace with the pack and enter exactly where she left, that has some impact on the game. Minor.


dayglo... can you give me a bit more info on why you say this?
it's not something ive considered or heard of before

i thought that if a SOOB penalty is to be awarded - it's given when the skater goes OOB (eg. too much speed around the corners)
not after she's stayed out for a while to pick when/where she can re-enter

Rev Riot did a pretty good job of expanding upon what I was saying there.
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Offline Major Wood

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Re: SOOB 6.2.9.4 - how strict are you with issuing this penalty?
« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2009, 04:44:54 am »

If a skater stays out of bounds for a few strides because she wants to avoid a block or keep pace with the pack and enter exactly where she left, that has some impact on the game. Minor.


dayglo... can you give me a bit more info on why you say this?
it's not something ive considered or heard of before

i thought that if a SOOB penalty is to be awarded - it's given when the skater goes OOB (eg. too much speed around the corners)
not after she's stayed out for a while to pick when/where she can re-enter

In doing so she is maintaining or increasing speed.

It's not a common penalty by any means. Coasting shouldn't ever constitute a SooB penalty. You're looking for someone to actually actively skate while out of bounds, and in doing so, gain an advantage that they wouldn't have had (or maintained an advantage) had they just coasted once they were out of bounds. For instance, skating alongside the person that knocked you out waiting for a space just behind or next to them to open up, that's a SooB penalty. Instead they should coast and drop back further. Sure, they only NEED to enter behind that one to avoid a cutting penalty, but that's why we have different penalties, different way to illegally use that space. As mentioned, creating a better circle by skating outside on the straightaways, this gives a Jammer an advantage, but doesn't shorten the track any, so it's a SooB, not a cutting penalty.

But really, these aren't called that much, if that answers your question.

hang on a minute... i think i see a point of difference here

it sounds like you're saying SOOB penalties are awarded for skating while in the OOB area

yet - ive always understood that SOOB are awarded to a skater going from in-bounds to out-of-bounds

ive thought this because in the rules it says...


alll these rules speak to going from inbounds to the OOB area -- there's no mention of skating while being OOB

Except the rules aren't specifying that the penalty starts from inbounds. In the case of 6.2.9.3, it would require the skater to go from inbounds to out-of bounds. This isn't the case in 6.2.9.4
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Offline mick hawkins

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Re: SOOB 6.2.9.4 - how strict are you with issuing this penalty?
« Reply #9 on: March 25, 2009, 04:51:51 am »

If a skater stays out of bounds for a few strides because she wants to avoid a block or keep pace with the pack and enter exactly where she left, that has some impact on the game. Minor.


dayglo... can you give me a bit more info on why you say this?
it's not something ive considered or heard of before

i thought that if a SOOB penalty is to be awarded - it's given when the skater goes OOB (eg. too much speed around the corners)
not after she's stayed out for a while to pick when/where she can re-enter

In doing so she is maintaining or increasing speed.


Quote
Except the rules aren't specifying that the penalty starts from inbounds. In the case of 6.2.9.3, it would require the skater to go from inbounds to out-of bounds. This isn't the case in 6.2.9.4

not quite
the rules say...

6.2.9.4 Skating out-of-bounds to maintain or increase speed.

not
maintaining speed while skating out of bounds

the rules talk about going out of bounds not being out of bounds
« Last Edit: March 25, 2009, 05:05:46 am by mick »
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Offline mick hawkins

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Re: SOOB 6.2.9.4 - how strict are you with issuing this penalty?
« Reply #10 on: March 25, 2009, 06:42:13 am »
.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2009, 06:48:27 am by mick »
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Offline Major Wood

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Re: SOOB 6.2.9.4 - how strict are you with issuing this penalty?
« Reply #11 on: March 25, 2009, 01:12:13 pm »
The rules simply say "skating out-of-bounds", not "skating out-of-bounds from in-bounds". That is the same argument that you are offering by saying that it doesn't say "skating while out-of-bounds"
I don't really like getting nitpicky over semantics, but that is the case here. The way it is written, both of our interpretations can be correct at any given time.
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Offline noidd

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Re: SOOB 6.2.9.4 - how strict are you with issuing this penalty?
« Reply #12 on: March 25, 2009, 01:38:34 pm »
.


Am I the only person who wants to know what was written here? :D
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Offline Cliquework

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Re: SOOB 6.2.9.4 - how strict are you with issuing this penalty?
« Reply #13 on: March 25, 2009, 02:18:55 pm »


not quite
the rules say...

6.2.9.4 Skating out-of-bounds to maintain or increase speed.

not
maintaining speed while skating out of bounds

the rules talk about going out of bounds not being out of bounds

Emphasising the word "to" only does not make it mean what you say, if we're to go semantical. The entire preposition itself should be highlighted. The preposition is "to maintain or increase speed". Which is the sort of "why", to the "what". The what being skating out of bounds.
We're not skating "to" a place called "maintain or increase speed" which is on the outside of the track.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2009, 02:25:15 pm by Cliquework »
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Offline JoeXCore

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Re: SOOB 6.2.9.4 - how strict are you with issuing this penalty?
« Reply #14 on: March 25, 2009, 03:29:30 pm »
I believe I agree with him... I mean.. say one crossed the boundary... and was gaining speed while out of bounds but then realized they crossed the track boundary and therefore slowed to a near halt. I do not see how a penalty for skating out of bounds to maintain or increase speed could be justified if they were to completely negate that gain before re-entering.
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