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Author Topic: Exiting the Penalty Box  (Read 18296 times)

Offline Miss Trie

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Exiting the Penalty Box
« on: March 28, 2009, 12:31:44 am »
I searched thru the threads and couldn't find this on here. 

The IP rules in relation to exiting the penalty box specifically say "pack skater"  not "in play skater". Does this mean a skater exiting the penalty box can step back onto the track in front of say...2 skaters that are 11 feet behind the pack?  They're not part of the pack but still in play.



Minor Penalties
6.2.8.6 A skater exiting the penalty box and re-entering the track in front of one pack
skater.

Major Penalties
6.2.8.12 A skater exiting the penalty box and re-entering the track in front of more than
one pack skater
Dixie Derby Girls NSO
Huntsville, AL

Offline Jonathan Lee

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Re: Exiting the Penalty Box
« Reply #1 on: March 28, 2009, 12:37:24 am »
Does this mean a skater exiting the penalty box can step back onto the track in front of say...2 skaters that are 11 feet behind the pack? 

Yes.
Bay Area Derby Girls, head referee :: WFTDA Certified Referee, Level 3

Offline Jessticular Fortitude

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Re: Exiting the Penalty Box
« Reply #2 on: March 28, 2009, 05:47:59 am »
Whoa. Really?

Why the difference, you think?
Hey look, a search function! Right up there! No on the left

Perhaps we should all spend a little more time reading and a little less time making shit up.

Offline Bob Dunn

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Re: Exiting the Penalty Box
« Reply #3 on: March 28, 2009, 02:51:29 pm »
Whoa. Really?

Why the difference, you think?

By being outside the pack you give up your rights as a pack member. 
One of those rights is having an established position ahead of players re-entering from the penalty box.

That's all interpretation, of course.  Maybe it's just an oversight that will be fixed?

Offline Endless Justin

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Re: Exiting the Penalty Box
« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2009, 04:02:41 pm »
Whoa. Really?

Why the difference, you think?

By being outside the pack you give up your rights as a pack member. 
One of those rights is having an established position ahead of players re-entering from the penalty box.


nailed it
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Offline Miss Trie

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Re: Exiting the Penalty Box
« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2009, 04:17:48 pm »
Thanks! It makes sense in my head now.

In a split/no pack situation, does she have to wait for all of the blockers on the track to pass her before stepping back in or can she step back in wherever she pleases?
Dixie Derby Girls NSO
Huntsville, AL

Offline Bob Dunn

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Re: Exiting the Penalty Box
« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2009, 04:37:38 pm »
Split/No pack means there is no established position, so the returning skater can step in wherever she wants.

Offline Miss Trie

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Re: Exiting the Penalty Box
« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2009, 04:47:09 pm »
What I thought.  Thanks again!
Dixie Derby Girls NSO
Huntsville, AL

Offline Johnny Zebra

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Re: Exiting the Penalty Box
« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2009, 07:14:12 pm »
Whoa. Really?

Why the difference, you think?

By being outside the pack you give up your rights as a pack member. 
One of those rights is having an established position ahead of players re-entering from the penalty box.


nailed it

It is interesting, though, that this is differentiated from engagement zone, as most (all?) of the other rights of being in the pack extend to being in the engagement zone.

What other rights are pack-explicit and do not extend to the engagement zone?

~j.z.
===============
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WFTDA Rules Q&A Working Group
Gotham Girls Roller Derby
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Re: Exiting the Penalty Box
« Reply #9 on: March 28, 2009, 08:31:43 pm »
One reason for it being the way it is might be that under some circumstances, being forced to enter behind the last in-play blocker would essentially force you to split the pack. If you enter directly behind the last pack blocker this wouldn't occur.

Offline Endless Justin

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Re: Exiting the Penalty Box
« Reply #10 on: March 29, 2009, 06:24:46 pm »
Whoa. Really?

Why the difference, you think?

By being outside the pack you give up your rights as a pack member. 
One of those rights is having an established position ahead of players re-entering from the penalty box.


nailed it

It is interesting, though, that this is differentiated from engagement zone, as most (all?) of the other rights of being in the pack extend to being in the engagement zone.

What other rights are pack-explicit and do not extend to the engagement zone?

~j.z.

4.4.2 Once the rear of the pack has reached the Pivot line, the referee whistles the Jammers
to begin their sprint through the pack with two short whistle blasts.  The Jammers do not
begin their sprint until the second whistle.
Gotham Girls Roller Disco
WFTDA Rules Committee
www.justincampoy.com

Offline Pallbearer

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Re: Exiting the Penalty Box
« Reply #11 on: March 30, 2009, 02:39:01 am »
The devil is in the details, I had completely missed the literal meaning of this. It rarely comes up but now that you point it out I've been waiting for the rear most in play blocker.
*sigh* never stop learning.



4.4.2 Once the rear of the pack has reached the Pivot line, the referee whistles the Jammers
to begin their sprint through the pack with two short whistle blasts.  The Jammers do not
begin their sprint until the second whistle.

Offline mick hawkins

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Re: Exiting the Penalty Box
« Reply #12 on: March 30, 2009, 02:59:50 am »
we've had times where, at the start of a jam, a blocker or two would hold back and not cross the pivot line

so then - waiting until the moment they're no-longer part of the pack to blow the jammer whistles... which means the jammers' whistles sound when no-one is actually crossing the pivot line (and the pack is way passed it)
Sun State Roller Girls (WFTDA Apprentice League)
Brisbane, Australia

Offline ttjustice

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Re: Exiting the Penalty Box
« Reply #13 on: March 30, 2009, 03:42:48 pm »
we've had times where, at the start of a jam, a blocker or two would hold back and not cross the pivot line

so then - waiting until the moment they're no-longer part of the pack to blow the jammer whistles... which means the jammers' whistles sound when no-one is actually crossing the pivot line (and the pack is way passed it)

We have this too, on a fairly regular basis as the players are really working on stretching the pack and such.  Its a good idea to remind your jam timers/ starters of this scenario before a bout as its one of those things that tends to get forgotten/ overlooked alot.
Timothy T. Justice
Ohio Roller Girls Head of Officiating 2011-2013
Retired Level 3 Skating Official
WFTDA Rules Theory Clerk

Offline Johnny Zebra

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Re: Exiting the Penalty Box
« Reply #14 on: March 30, 2009, 07:58:18 pm »

It is interesting, though, that this is differentiated from engagement zone, as most (all?) of the other rights of being in the pack extend to being in the engagement zone.

What other rights are pack-explicit and do not extend to the engagement zone?

~j.z.

4.4.2 Once the rear of the pack has reached the Pivot line, the referee whistles the Jammers
to begin their sprint through the pack with two short whistle blasts.  The Jammers do not
begin their sprint until the second whistle.

Ha, yes -- I thought of exactly this post during the Gotham-Boston ref meeting you were instructing the jam timer.

~j.z.
===============
Johnny Zebra
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