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Author Topic: Whistle between jam start and Jammer start  (Read 12543 times)

Offline theMadStatter

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Re: Whistle between jam start and Jammer start
« Reply #15 on: April 17, 2012, 03:53:42 pm »
This is also explicitly mentioned in the Officiating Manual, 5.5 Extra Whistles at a Jam's Start.

Quote
5.5.2 - Major Penalty or Fourth Minor At Start of Jam
If a skater commits a major or a fourth minor immediately at the jam's start (before the Jammer starting whistle), be careful not to confuse skaters with a whistle if there is the possibility it will confuse Jammers and cause them to false start.

A whistle to send a skater to the box for an intentional fourth minor may optionally be stifled, if the skater and the referee understand the call and that skater is properly pointed to the box with the correct hand signals.

Too bad they don't say what to do with a major, but one way to read it is that given that fourth minor whistle is explicitly described as stifle-able (with great detail) implies that the same isn't true for a major whistle, and also that if the jammer gets confused they will false start.  Of course, it also says not to confuse them (and then fails to detail the best practice for dealing with a major whistle that would confuse them)...

Offline Darkjester

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Re: Whistle between jam start and Jammer start
« Reply #16 on: April 17, 2012, 04:12:36 pm »
Thats the conundrum that is presented.
We have guidelines that suggest 'how' officials should deal with the situation of whistles that occur for penalties between the whistles, but nothing that says how to deal with it if issues go contrary to the guidelines.  This is not to discount the Standardized Practices document, or the Officiating Manual, they are important tools and resources, but they don't give us answer to the in between issue.

I'm with Eject, even if it was official error with the single whistle, allowing the 'false starting' jammer to keep the unfair advantage gained via the false start has major impact on the jam. If we do not at least issue the False Start Minor, the jammer has no reason to yield.

We've then given a team an unfair advantage in that Jam.

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Offline Bratty Cardia

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Re: Whistle between jam start and Jammer start
« Reply #17 on: April 17, 2012, 06:42:00 pm »
If everything goes to hell in a hand basket, and it gets caught quickly enough, there's always the stipulation that a jam may be called off when:

Code: [Select]
9.2.6.1.1Referees call an Official Timeout.
Stopping a jam for that sort of error has got to be some kind of crazy last resort, though.

As for the bit where the whistle for the fourth minor is described as stifle-able, I should think that it applies to major penalties as well. There is zero difference in the way a fourth minor is called and a major is called, minus what is said at the end. In other words, the verbal cue is:

(whistle) COLOUR NUMBER PENALTY (Major/Fourth Minor)

I imagine that the intentional fourth minor is just the most common penalty that occurs at the beginning of a jam, so it gets addressed directly. However, there can be major penalties before the Jammer Start Whistle, and those should be treated similarly.
Bratty Cardia
2.2.2 — The team with the most points at the end of the game wins.

Offline SeerSin

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Re: Whistle between jam start and Jammer start
« Reply #18 on: April 17, 2012, 07:51:31 pm »
We've then given a team an unfair advantage in that Jam.

Exactly, you have given, they did not take the advantage. It's like sending a skater off by mistake and then giving her an insubordination penalty for not returning when you told her to. It's inherently pointless to issue a penalty and loses the story for the words.

Offline Noah Tall

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Re: Whistle between jam start and Jammer start
« Reply #19 on: April 18, 2012, 01:24:17 am »
To the original question, to avoid whistling off a skater between the starting whistles, I do not put my whistle in my mouth until the jammer whistles have blown.
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Offline Darkjester

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Re: Whistle between jam start and Jammer start
« Reply #20 on: April 18, 2012, 11:57:30 am »
We've then given a team an unfair advantage in that Jam.

Exactly, you have given, they did not take the advantage. It's like sending a skater off by mistake and then giving her an insubordination penalty for not returning when you told her to. It's inherently pointless to issue a penalty and loses the story for the words.

I see your point about being 'given' an unfair advantage versus taking an Unfair advantage, however they haven't been 'given' it until they false start.

However, it doesn't correlate to your metaphor, which is the exact opposite in which you've deprived the skater and then punished her again.

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Offline Celtic Raider

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Re: Whistle between jam start and Jammer start
« Reply #21 on: April 19, 2012, 03:31:11 am »
To the original question, to avoid whistling off a skater between the starting whistles, I do not put my whistle in my mouth until the jammer whistles have blown.

Good plan, but for those with finger whistles, we don't usually keep it in our mouths.

Offline Bratty Cardia

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Re: Whistle between jam start and Jammer start
« Reply #22 on: April 20, 2012, 03:26:44 pm »
Yes. I committed the error in question while acting as front IPR. I had two whistles, as always, but I almost never use the lanyard whistle as a pack ref, inside or outside. Indeed, it was my finger whistle that was responsible for the errant tweet. I suppose I need to envision a "whistle blackout" in my head between those two start whistles, such that I won't inadvertently whistle for any penalty.
Bratty Cardia
2.2.2 — The team with the most points at the end of the game wins.

 

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