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Author Topic: stopped positional block.  (Read 3756 times)

Offline Re'f Al Ghul

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stopped positional block.
« on: June 20, 2012, 02:51:05 pm »
Hey all,

Another one from scrimmages, last week there was a strange incident. In a power jam (white team had a jammer, black team had none), Both teams formed a wall, white in front of black. White team forced the pack to a standstill making the black blockers stop to avoid back blocks.

This was an obvious attempt to maximise power jam points, and as a tactic it seemed to work quite well. However, the pack was at a standstill when the white jammer came up and collided with a black blocker from behind. Had the black blocker fallen, I'd have given a back block major to the white jammer, but instead the black blocker stayed upright and steady, and the white jammer stopped dead, stumbling, but staying upright at the back of the pack.

My question is this: under 6.9.1, stopped blocking includes positional blocking. Under 6.9.12, causing an opponent to stumble is a minor penalty. The jammer didn't change relative position or fall, so 6.9.16 doesn't apply, but should I have called a DOG minor on the black blocker she skated into? I didn't think it was fair to issue a penalty to someone who had effectively been forced to a stop, and not (as far as I could see) purposefully gotten in the jammers way.

Offline Bob Humbug

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Re: stopped positional block.
« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2012, 04:25:41 pm »
6.9.4 tells me that skaters may stop without engaging.
It sounds by your description that the white jammer initiatiated the contact. The initiator of a block is always responsible for the legality of the contact.

As for positional blocking, I'll pose these questions:
Would you have called a DOG minor if no contact was made?
Did the blocker position herself to impede the jammer? Or, was she simply stopped as a matter of being in the traffic clog?
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Offline J. Ref K.

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Re: stopped positional block.
« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2012, 09:03:38 pm »
Piggy-backing on Bob's reply, simply being stopped on the track is not enough to qualify for a stopped block; there must be an initiation of the block, while stopped, and with a measurable impact on the receiver, to penalize. 

For example, a skater stopped and then leans into the path of an oncoming Jammer, forcing her to stumble, go out of bounds, etc. 

Hitting the brakes and coming to a complete stop is legal.  The black blocker in your question did nothing more than stand there, correct?  If so, the initiator is the approaching white jammer.  However, if black blocker (from that stopped status) tried to obstruct the white jammer in any way, she would incur a DoG (stopped block) as applicable by the block's impact.
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Offline Re'f Al Ghul

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Re: stopped positional block.
« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2012, 08:38:18 am »
Thanks guys, that clears it up.

On another point, during the same jam, white team was actually forcing the pack clockwise round the track (slowly and only briefly). The pack was stopped before the jammer came around again, but I assume the same criteria for initiating a block apply if the jammer had collided at the back of a clockwise moving pack?

Offline Dire Wolff

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Re: stopped positional block.
« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2012, 09:59:44 am »
I would call DOG if a blocker was standing still completely while positinally blocking a Jammer (intentfully or not is not for me to judge).

Imagine the blocker standing still at the inside line, closing this off for the jammer to pass, making her have to cut to the outside and pass her (and possibly more skaters) via a much longer path. Clear example of positional blocking and I'd like to see her feet moving for me not to call that DOG.

Of course, there is a fine line in defining engagement and initiator and course of a skater. So it really is call what you see. But the DOG is a possibility for me.

Offline Riff Reff

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Re: stopped positional block.
« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2012, 05:48:09 pm »
Quote
I would call DOG if a blocker was standing still completely while positinally blocking a Jammer (intentfully or not is not for me to judge).

Seconded!

In this now common Power Jam situation, one team taking the outside line, the "defending" team forming a wall across the track the players in the wall need to be stepping or skating (ccw or at least lateral) in order to execute a block. Some skaters tend to forget that and just remain stationary, forcing the jammer to slow down or go around which would be a stopped block. If they are moving clockwise it is pretty clear.

However a stationary skater is no carte blanche for a jammer to just skate into the back of said skater and go unpenalized. The blocker still has an established position. I see several scenarios here:

1. Not stepping or skating and forcing the jammer to slow or go around is a (positional) stopped block.
2. Skating into the back (initiating contact) of a stopped skater is a back block.
3. Stepping into the Jammers path is a legal block.
4. Stepping into the jammers path and then remaining stationary is a stopped block.
Don't look at the game with rules-tinted glasses; look at the rules with game-tinted glasses!

Offline J. Ref K.

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Re: stopped positional block.
« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2012, 05:56:21 pm »
From SeerSin last year:


Please keep in mind that established position is a term used solely to assist in determining the initiator of a block.
Also, standing in place is not necessarily a positional block. What is the impact of a skater simply going around another skater? I think most often no impact. Stopping on the track is legal. One skater simply moving around another is not a penalty, it's playing roller derby.
In order to determine a positional block I'm looking for some kind of action, not a skater standing on the track without moving. Stepping in front of a skater, coming to a compete stop while in front of another skater, these are positional blocks.
I'm sure we can all list 100 different scenarios that would suggest a penalty. What's important to take away from this is to look for the impact and penalize, or not, accordingly.
"Leadership and learning are indispensable to each other."  -JFK

Offline Riff Reff

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Re: stopped positional block.
« Reply #7 on: June 22, 2012, 09:34:31 am »
I totally agree with SeerSins post! Just standing there is not a penalty. It needs to force the opponent to slow down. A jammer coming doen the straightaway onto a stationary blocker, having all the time to adjust her path is not forced to slow down.

I admit that my scenario 1 is not the most likeliest.
Don't look at the game with rules-tinted glasses; look at the rules with game-tinted glasses!

Offline Dire Wolff

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Re: stopped positional block.
« Reply #8 on: June 24, 2012, 10:46:46 pm »
I agree with SeerSin as well. But do note he writes: "most often" just standing still is not impacting the opponent.

I think the exception to just standing still is not illegal, is if you are clearly blocking at the same time, be it by moving into someone or by deliberate, and effectfull POSITIONAL BLOCKING.

In the case of a massive four-wall just standing still, I would call DOG! If the blocker closes of the inside apex at that exact sweet spot so the jammer either needs to cut or loose a lot of speed, DOG. If standing still at the end of the engagement zone keeps the jammer inside that much longer, making her a legal target, again a DOG.

All of the above have a clear impact on the game (or at least, that's i what I am trying to describe) so deserve a DOG as they are examples of the act of positional blocking while standing still.

 

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