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Author Topic: How to score NOTT points (split from: Mistakes and other problems)  (Read 5323 times)

Offline reflmao

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Watch as I perform an act of advanced thread necromancy!  Arise dead thread and do my bidding!

1) a zero-point scoring pass through the pack

Providence accidentally left a blocker off the track, and had two in the box plus their jammer.  So they had one single blocker for a nice big long stretch of time.  How many points is that blocker worth, kids?  That's right, five points.

So the Charm City jammer, in one of her scoring passes, gets legally blocked off the track by the single blocker.  The blocker herself also goes out of bounds.  The Jammer jumps back in bounds in front of that blocker, before the blocker can return to the track.  The jammer then zooms off.

No point awarded, and no cutting penalty, just an out-of-bounds pass.  And there you have it -- a zero-point pass through the pack!

No mistake made there, just a really curious moment

The first time I read this my thought was "WTF?"  Then I dived back into the rules.   

Confirm if I'm reading this right.  The blocker was out of play, but by 7.5.1 that's OK the jammer could have gotten the points with a legal pass.  There was no penalty becasue teh blocker was out of play.  My initial train of thought stopped here. 

By 7.4 she earns the NOTT points when she scores her first point on a pass.  But, by 7.3.1 the pass must be in bounds, so she never scored and never got the NOTT points.  By 7.3.1.1 the jammer could have gone back and rescored against the blocker except that she zoomed off and by 7.3.1.2 after she gets out of the engagement zone she can't.

And you figured that out live?  Wow, I have a lot of practicing to do.

RCRD, Rochester, NY

Offline Major Wood

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How to score NOTT points (split from: Mistakes and other problems)
« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2009, 05:54:57 pm »
It sounds like a lot, but it's mostly pretty simple. Let me help you out with your thought process.
At the first whistle (to start the pack) make a note of if anyone from the opposing team did not make it onto the track. The number of skaters who were not fielded from the opposing team will be added to your jammer's score on the first point of each pass.
If an opposing skater removes herself from play, add 1 point to that number that you got at the beginning of the jam (if it is for equipment malfunction, be aware that she may return to the track and keep an eye on it. If she does, subtract one from the number in your head).
As your jammer approaches the pack for each scoring pass, check the penalty box for opposing skaters. If there are some opposing skaters in the box. If there are, add one point for each skater in the box. If any of those opposing skaters in the box return to the track and get in front of the jammer before the jammer scores her first point for that pass, subtract one point from the number in your head.

Now, that sounds like a lot, but it's very easy to do if you are attentive.

As she comes up on each scoring pass, all you need to watch is if the jammer passes opposing blockers legally and in bounds. Her first point is worth one point plus the number in your head.
In this case, no point was scored, so no NOTT points could be given.
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Offline JoeXCore

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How to score NOTT points (split from: Mistakes and other problems)
« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2009, 07:17:49 pm »

Confirm if I'm reading this right.  The blocker was out of play, but by 7.5.1 that's OK the jammer could have gotten the points with a legal pass.  There was no penalty becasue teh blocker was out of play.  My initial train of thought stopped here. 

Not because she was out of play.. .but because she was out of bounds. CTT penalties are still issued for cutting around out of play skaters.
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Offline BatFasterson

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How to score NOTT points (split from: Mistakes and other problems)
« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2009, 07:53:55 pm »
It sounds like a lot, but it's mostly pretty simple. Let me help you out with your thought process.
At the first whistle ... [snip]
Now, that sounds like a lot, but it's very easy to do if you are attentive.

I'm glad you posted this process, Mayor Wood. I've been doing a lot more jam-reffing lately, and at a higher level than in the past, and so I was thankful to see this pretty much mirrors what I've been trying to do each jam as far as tracking NOTT points.

As far as making a bad mistake, last month I jam-reffed a bout where, near the end of the 2nd period, the jammer got out front of the pack where she was alone with two opposing OOP skaters. I threw up the OOP warning with my arm, and the jammer stepped around them to the inside -- basically cutting track to get around them. The blockers looked to me for a cutting track major but I told them they were out-of-play and didn't call it.
Man, I felt like such a screw-up when I check the WFTDA rules clarifications a couple of days after the bout and saw this:http://rules.wftda.com/2009/03/24/cutting-around-an-out-of-play-skater/.
I should have known better but just suffered a brain fart at the moment and thought I was making the right call.
Oddly enough, I felt really solid on a couple of calls that were questioned by the team captains or crowd during that bout, but no one (aside from the two blockers looking for the call) second-guessed me on that one.
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New River Valley Roller Girls, Blacksburg, VA
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Offline mick hawkins

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How to score NOTT points (split from: Mistakes and other problems)
« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2009, 01:04:46 am »
as wood nicely demonstrates, basically you've got to decide how many points the first blocker is worth if/when the jammer scores on her

so total NOTT points players, just been sent off, removed from play and such... all of these add to the points scored when the jammer scores on that first blocker

and watch for returning players who'll no longer add to that total and need to be scored on
Sun State Roller Girls (WFTDA Apprentice League)
Brisbane, Australia

Offline Bishop

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Re: How to score NOTT points (split from: Mistakes and other problems)
« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2009, 04:11:43 am »
1) a zero-point scoring pass through the pack

Providence accidentally left a blocker off the track, and had two in the box plus their jammer.  So they had one single blocker for a nice big long stretch of time.  How many points is that blocker worth, kids?  That's right, five points.

So the Charm City jammer, in one of her scoring passes, gets legally blocked off the track by the single blocker.  The blocker herself also goes out of bounds.  The Jammer jumps back in bounds in front of that blocker, before the blocker can return to the track.  The jammer then zooms off.

No point awarded, and no cutting penalty, just an out-of-bounds pass.  And there you have it -- a zero-point pass through the pack!

No mistake made there, just a really curious moment


  But, by 7.3.1 the pass must be in bounds, so she never scored and never got the NOTT points. 

Ok, it's Hambone, so I don't doubt he's right.  *However* I always thought that passing "legally, in-bounds" referred to the Jammer, not the opposing player who was out-of-bounds.  Let me copy and paste 7.3.1 for the forum's convenience:

7.3.1 Pass opposing skaters in-bounds, legally, without committing penalties.

Can anyone see why I'd think that?  If Hambone's on the money here, doesn't this rule implicity encourage a skater to stay out-of-bounds?  Hambone's example is a classic case where a skater could manipulate the rules in order to prevent the opposing Jammer from scoring, i.e. "Hey, here comes the Jammer, I'm going to hop out-of-bounds so she can't score."

I'll be honest with the forum here, I would have given the Jammer five points because I would've assumed the language in 7.3.1 referred to the Jammer passing legally and being in-bounds.  Is there more direction elsewhere in the rules on this issue?

   

« Last Edit: April 12, 2009, 04:14:32 am by Bishop »
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Offline Johnny Zebra

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Re: How to score NOTT points (split from: Mistakes and other problems)
« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2009, 05:34:16 am »
. . .I would've assumed the language in 7.3.1 referred to the Jammer passing legally and being in-bounds.  Is there more direction elsewhere in the rules on this issue?


This is exactly what the rule refers to. In the situation Hambone describes (which I also witnessed), the jammer was blocked out, the (only) opposing blocker also went out of bounds, and the jammer passed her while the jammer herself was still out of bounds. To get five points, all the jammer had to do was enter in bounds behind the OOB blocker and pass her (or, after re-entering in front of her, drop back and re-pass her while in bounds). As it happened, she got zero instead.

~j.z.
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Offline Bishop

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Re: How to score NOTT points (split from: Mistakes and other problems)
« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2009, 02:19:46 pm »
Now that I've had a full night's sleep, j.z.'s explanation makes perfect sense to me.  I guess I was thinking that as long as the pass was legal, and the opposing blocker was still OOB, the Jammer would still get points.  I was thinking that the Blocker's continued OOB status eliminated her from having any impact/control of the game.  But we are focusing on passing in terms of hip positioning with the Jammer required to be in-bounds when her hips pass the opposing Blocker's hips regardless of whether the Blocker is in-bounds or OOB, correct?  So, here we have the unique situation where the Jammer passes legally but isn't awarded any points because the Jammer is OOB when her hips pass the opposing Blocker's.  Actually, now that I think about it, this probably happens fairly frequently.  I'll make a mental note to check for a legal in-bounds pass when a Jammer and an opposing Blocker get blocked OOB.  I personally don't see this situation often because of the level of players I work with.

Just to make sure I have this concept straight in my head: the Jammer could've skated clockwise OOB around the OOB opposing Blocker, entered the track behind the Blocker and subsequently passed the OOB Blocker, and been awarded five points for the pass, correct?   I'm thinking that the rules would somehow allow the Jammer to pass legally without having to wait on the OOB blocker to establish her position in bounds.




« Last Edit: April 12, 2009, 03:22:17 pm by Bishop »
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Offline Riff Reff

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Re: How to score NOTT points (split from: Mistakes and other problems)
« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2009, 08:03:38 pm »
Quote
the Jammer could've skated clockwise OOB around the OOB opposing Blocker, entered the track behind the Blocker and subsequently passed the OOB Blocker, and been awarded five points for the pass, correct?

correct. 7.4 and 7.5.1 apply. the jammer has to be in bounds when she is passing that blocker in order to score.
Don't look at the game with rules-tinted glasses; look at the rules with game-tinted glasses!

Offline Bishop

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Re: How to score NOTT points (split from: Mistakes and other problems)
« Reply #9 on: May 09, 2009, 03:11:24 am »
As far as making a bad mistake, last month I jam-reffed a bout where, near the end of the 2nd period, the jammer got out front of the pack where she was alone with two opposing OOP skaters. I threw up the OOP warning with my arm, and the jammer stepped around them to the inside -- basically cutting track to get around them. The blockers looked to me for a cutting track major but I told them they were out-of-play and didn't call it.
Man, I felt like such a screw-up when I check the WFTDA rules clarifications a couple of days after the bout and saw this:http://rules.wftda.com/2009/03/24/cutting-around-an-out-of-play-skater/.
I should have known better but just suffered a brain fart at the moment and thought I was making the right call.
Oddly enough, I felt really solid on a couple of calls that were questioned by the team captains or crowd during that bout, but no one (aside from the two blockers looking for the call) second-guessed me on that one.

Well, it looks like that call would've been correct under 4.0 rules.  You were just ahead of the curve there Bat.
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