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Author Topic: Counter blocking  (Read 5860 times)

Offline Ballistic Whistle

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Counter blocking
« on: January 27, 2009, 05:52:38 pm »
Always consider who is initiating the block. Also, take a look over the legal target and blocking zones diagrams.
You have to bear in mind counter blocking though as well, so in a blocker blocking a receiver situation, the blocker is the instigator, but the receiver is still liable should they counter block.

Offline JoeXCore

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Counter blocking
« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2009, 06:11:52 pm »
Always consider who is initiating the block. Also, take a look over the legal target and blocking zones diagrams.
You have to bear in mind counter blocking though as well, so in a blocker blocking a receiver situation, the blocker is the instigator, but the receiver is still liable should they counter block.

Counter blocking is movement TOWARD an oncoming block... so if the arms are steady and not toward or away, one must assume the action is legal.
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Offline Ballistic Whistle

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Counter blocking
« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2009, 06:25:19 pm »
Counter blocking is movement TOWARD an oncoming block... so if the arms are steady and not toward or away, one must assume the action is legal.
That's the rub that's got me thinking I may have the wrong end of the stick.

The thing that nags at me is why are we treating all forearms\hands penalties as needing to be reliant on blocking? I appreciate, that it's logical to do so as it's an illegal blocking zone. However, a lot of the penalties called on tripping (for example) aren't as a result of active blocking. If the forearms\hands penalties were to be exclusively for blocking shouldn't the title of the penalty section be:

"ILLEGAL BLOCKING WITH FOREARMS AND HANDS" (as it is for Elbows) rather than "ILLEGAL USE OF FOREARMS AND HANDS"

Just so that I don't seem like I'm flogging a dead horse, I'm happy for the answer to this discussion to go either way. My concern is that the wording of 6.2.3.2 seems to leave it open to multiple interpretations (as this discussion has proved).

6.2.3.2 Incidental forearm contact between skaters is acceptable when the arms are pulled into the body to absorb the force of a block.

Offline Darkjester

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Re: Counter blocking
« Reply #3 on: January 27, 2009, 06:56:23 pm »
Because rubbing is racing?

I think its in there because 90% if not more of the times "Forearms/hands/elbows" are used its during a block. While yes there can be Tripping (capitalized to show the foul, not the action) calls where the hands are used ( which depending on the clear intent, is grounds for ejection). I think it could be simplified, and I think some other refs discussed it once on the yahoo groups, to cut down the number of penalties in total by just calling "Illegal Blocking" as its own penalty and encompass, Back blocks, hands/helmet/forearms/elbows, etc.,  but that is a WFTDA decision to make.

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Offline Brother Grim

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Re: Counter blocking
« Reply #4 on: January 27, 2009, 08:27:00 pm »
Counter blocking is movement TOWARD an oncoming block... so if the arms are steady and not toward or away, one must assume the action is legal.

This thread was born out of the implications of crossing arms across a gap between two skaters, so in this case their arms wouldn't be pulled into their sides. As a result, there is first 6.2.2.3 The elbow must be bent while blocking with that arm.

What I'm failing to understand is if the Jammer skates up behind the Blocker, who is holding her arm out to the side in a stationary manner, the Jammer makes legal contact chest to forearm but the Blocker doesn't move her arm, effectively "holding" that Jammer. How does this not warrant a penalty?
Brother Grim

Offline Darkjester

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Re: Counter blocking
« Reply #5 on: January 27, 2009, 09:26:36 pm »
While I see what your saying Grim, I don't think that its practical in application. A skater at speed, 'hitting' into a girl with a legal block' who's arm is extended outward as if trying to stop her, the skater coming from behind with momentum is going to move the arm out of the way. If the other skater tries and 'swings' her arm BACK into the oncoming skater in a 'counterblock' then she would be guilty if she hit the initial blocker with anything from the elbow to the hand.

Note: There is a clarification on the WFTDA FAQ's stating that skaters can in fact legally block with their arm extended out from them as long as the majority of the blow is dispersed along the upper arm, even if there is 'some' elbow contact.

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Offline Crash Test Ref

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Re: Counter blocking
« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2009, 09:54:20 am »
What I'm failing to understand is if the Jammer skates up behind the Blocker, who is holding her arm out to the side in a stationary manner, the Jammer makes legal contact chest to forearm but the Blocker doesn't move her arm, effectively "holding" that Jammer. How does this not warrant a penalty?

That is difficult and often impractical against a hard skating jammer, but legal.

What I have seen is a block in which the right elbow of the blocker is well out to the side, and the other hand supports the bent right arm in a secure position which is solid but not swinging.  The upper arm and elbow are then used together to lean into and block the side or chest of a jammer who attempts to pass.

This is perfectly legal, provided
1.  the arm doesn't "swing" relative to the blocker's body (although she can twist her body), and
2.  the elbow doesn't become the sole point of contact (jabbing)
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Offline Brother Grim

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Re: Counter blocking
« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2009, 10:08:02 am »
Thanks guys. When visualising situations in my head, I often forget to factor inertia into the equation.
Brother Grim

 

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