Menu

ZH Classifieds
ZH Files
ZH Staff
WFTDA 12/1/2014 Rules
WFTDA 3/1/2014 Rules

Donate

Please Support Zebra Huddle!

Recent Posts

x-ray scanner by joereitman
August 17, 2019, 05:03:44 am

under vehicle surveillance system by joereitman
August 17, 2019, 04:59:44 am

Re: "Pincer" blocks = multipayer? by Bluebeard
July 11, 2019, 06:30:49 pm

"Pincer" blocks = multipayer? by Rego_Derby
July 11, 2019, 01:08:36 am

Re: Jammer Scoring Theory by Major Wood
June 26, 2019, 09:59:33 pm

Jammer Scoring Theory by Rego_Derby
June 25, 2019, 04:30:03 am

Re: Clamping down with the upper arm by bmd (2113)
June 12, 2019, 07:54:29 pm

Re: Ref facepaint by Major Wood
June 12, 2019, 04:16:34 pm

Re: Ref facepaint by Rego_Derby
June 11, 2019, 11:35:08 pm

Re: Ref facepaint by Axis of Stevil
June 10, 2019, 06:56:10 pm

Author Topic: Pack IS here  (Read 7479 times)

Offline Beat Monkey

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 8
  • Stats Sheet: 0
Pack IS here
« on: September 09, 2012, 06:53:36 pm »
(This is from memory a few months back so may lack some details but main point is there)

I'm head reffing (IPR) a first timers' bout when the white team's blockers take a knee on the jammer line. However, one white blocker remains standing close to the inside line, but is somewhat obscured from their team mates, other refs and the jammers by an opposing blocker.

At the pack whistle nearly everybody is expecting the "No pack" call, but there is a pack because of the standing white blocker, so I don't say it. The jam timer rightly doesn't blow the two jammer release whistles, there's a few seconds of waiting and then the jammers get itchy trigger fingers and set off anyway.

The whole thing descends into farce so I call off the jam. This could have been avoided if I'd have said "Pack is here" at the first whistle. I explain to the captains what happened and they seem happy with how I handled it and it's not spoken of again.

Suffice to say, I've not made that mistake again!
Hulls Angels Roller Dames (HARD)

Offline Darkjester

  • Has Too Much Damn Time Member
  • ********************
  • Posts: 3067
  • Stats Sheet: 39
  • "When in doubt, RTFM"
  • League Affiliation: Beach Brawl SK8R Dolls
  • Referee Certification Level: Not Certified
  • NSO Certification Level: Not Certified
Re: Pack IS here
« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2012, 12:08:59 pm »
Actually you were correct to not say "Pack is Here" but, I wouldn't have said anything otherwise. That the Jammers took off on their own isn't cause to call off the jam however.

They have until the 'Jam Start' Whistle to get themselves back across the line. Delaying the Jam start used to be a applicable strategy for when a team has a skater in the penalty box to kill time (either the jammer, or blocker.)

Now.. If during that, the Jammers engage the Blockers, based on impact they receive "Illegal Engagement" penalties..

If the Pack crosses the Pivot line or otherwise becomes destroyed, then the Jammer Start whistles are blown, and if the Jammers are out of position recieve possible minor OR Major False Start Penalties. If they yield once given the minor, no Major. If they do not yield, upgrades to Major.

By yielding they BOTH have to come to a complete stop. Then resume, since both of them crossed the Jammer start line.

As for the "Pack is Here" designation, you only have to give it when pack position changes (Front to back, or vice versa) or the pack is formed/reformed after destruction.
Madness Tolls
69¢
Beach Brawl Sk8R Dolls
Fort Walton Beach FL

Offline Beat Monkey

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 8
  • Stats Sheet: 0
Re: Pack IS here
« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2012, 12:29:09 pm »
Ahh, okay, that does make sense. I didn't like calling it off but it was difficult to tell what had happened and it was getting messy.

I initially said nothing as I felt making an unnecessary call would be coaching the skaters. After, a more experienced ref and NSO recommended the "Pack is here" call in the future to avoid confusion among officials rather than the skaters.

Would it not be sensible then to define the pack in a case like that above, such as when the standing skater is hidden from view and the OPRs are wondering why there is no call? Or stay silent as you say and then assess any penalties accordingly? It's this communication that seems, to me, the mistake that I made.
Hulls Angels Roller Dames (HARD)

Offline Darkjester

  • Has Too Much Damn Time Member
  • ********************
  • Posts: 3067
  • Stats Sheet: 39
  • "When in doubt, RTFM"
  • League Affiliation: Beach Brawl SK8R Dolls
  • Referee Certification Level: Not Certified
  • NSO Certification Level: Not Certified
Re: Pack IS here
« Reply #3 on: September 10, 2012, 02:28:46 pm »
Given this was a FreshMeat bout.. I see no problem with defining the pack immediately. I actually used to do this as an indicator for the Jam Timer until the Verbal Cues document came out.

However, you do have to be careful doing something non-standard as the Skaters may begin to think this is how it SHOULD be handled. For instance, if my team was using this as a strategy to hopefully draw the opposing Jammer into a false start, or if I was trying to kill/delay a start to get a penalized blocker back onto the track, I'd be upset that the jam was called off, or if it were started prematurely.

There IS a verbal cue I've seen here, though I'm in Iraq at the moment (was Kuwait) and don't remember if its standard.. "Jam is live" which lets skaters know that the jam IS going so they aren't standing there waiting for a Jam Start whistle while the clock is ticking away.

Madness Tolls
69¢
Beach Brawl Sk8R Dolls
Fort Walton Beach FL

Offline theMadStatter

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 67
  • Stats Sheet: 1
Re: Pack IS here
« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2012, 04:51:06 pm »
The jam timer should also be standing their with their arm pointing out, all four fingers together, waiting to release the jammers, but it is amazing how many skaters don't notice the jam timer...

Offline FNZebra

  • Superhero Member
  • **********
  • Posts: 1408
  • Stats Sheet: 35
  • I'm a shitty ref.
  • League Affiliation: Bleeding Heartland Roller Derby
  • Referee Certification Level: Not Certified
  • NSO Certification Level: Level 2
Re: Pack IS here
« Reply #5 on: September 10, 2012, 06:05:26 pm »
More than a few crews may internally reserve the use of the verbal cue "pack is here" at the beginning of the jam as an official-to-official signal to the Jam Timer to release the Jammers. So using that might be counter-productive at the point described in the OP.

There are numerous visual cues that the jam has started, though. The Jam Timer's formerly-raised arm should now be down. Referees may be silently indicating the location of the pack with the appropriate hand signals.

And, of course, from the official WFTDA Verbal Cues document, "Jam is on" may be used to indicate the current jam status to any who are within earshot of that call.
You will bout as you practice.


Cheers,

FN Zebra
Bleeding Heartland Roller Derby (WFTDA)
Bloomington, Indianer

Offline Darkjester

  • Has Too Much Damn Time Member
  • ********************
  • Posts: 3067
  • Stats Sheet: 39
  • "When in doubt, RTFM"
  • League Affiliation: Beach Brawl SK8R Dolls
  • Referee Certification Level: Not Certified
  • NSO Certification Level: Not Certified
Re: Pack IS here
« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2012, 01:00:47 am »
Thanks for the back up on the "Jam is on" FN.. I vaguely remembered something along that line but was in Iraq without my supporting documents.
Madness Tolls
69¢
Beach Brawl Sk8R Dolls
Fort Walton Beach FL

Offline FNZebra

  • Superhero Member
  • **********
  • Posts: 1408
  • Stats Sheet: 35
  • I'm a shitty ref.
  • League Affiliation: Bleeding Heartland Roller Derby
  • Referee Certification Level: Not Certified
  • NSO Certification Level: Level 2
Re: Pack IS here
« Reply #7 on: September 17, 2012, 01:05:09 am »
Thanks for the back up on the "Jam is on" FN.. I vaguely remembered something along that line but was in Iraq without my supporting documents.

Iraq? I thought you were in Kuwait. Dang. I hope they're paying you huge bank, and you get back safely and get to spend it on some new gear.
You will bout as you practice.


Cheers,

FN Zebra
Bleeding Heartland Roller Derby (WFTDA)
Bloomington, Indianer

Offline The Gorram Reaver

  • Referee
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 875
  • Stats Sheet: 60
  • League Affiliation: Mad Rollin' Dolls
  • Referee Certification Level: Level 2
  • NSO Certification Level: Not Certified
Re: Pack IS here
« Reply #8 on: September 17, 2012, 05:04:15 am »
Iraq? I thought you were in Kuwait.

Wait.  I thought they were the same place.  (Andy Egypt, and Syria, and Cpress, and Iran, and Rwanda, and Uganda.....)
The Gorram Reaver
Mad Rollin' Dolls, Madison, WI

Offline Darkjester

  • Has Too Much Damn Time Member
  • ********************
  • Posts: 3067
  • Stats Sheet: 39
  • "When in doubt, RTFM"
  • League Affiliation: Beach Brawl SK8R Dolls
  • Referee Certification Level: Not Certified
  • NSO Certification Level: Not Certified
Re: Pack IS here
« Reply #9 on: October 07, 2012, 07:42:10 am »
Yeah, lovely world of IT. I was in Kuwait for 11 months, and then got transferred up to Iraq for that last 30 days to fill in for someone. Currently at the U.S. Embassy in Iraq, hardly feels like a deployment.

And yeah, its more $ for me to spend at Champs!!!
Madness Tolls
69¢
Beach Brawl Sk8R Dolls
Fort Walton Beach FL

 

Featured Product

 

Zebra Huddle Head Referee Bout Booklet

 

Featured Classifieds


ZH Files

How to Score a Point in Roller Derby
Rating: *****
Downloads: 3269
Views: 5283
Filesize: 327.61KB
Date: January 17, 2017, 04:21:03 am
Comments (0)
By: AdamSmasher
June 2013 Ruleset situational questions
Rating: *****
Downloads: 2365
Views: 4879
Filesize: 29.71KB
Date: February 07, 2014, 04:57:32 pm
Comments (2)
By: Crash Test Ref
Rules Q&A and Publications for 6/15/13 Document
Rating: (None)
Downloads: 2527
Views: 5444
Filesize: 26.27KB
Date: August 02, 2013, 04:10:40 pm
Comments (0)
By: Shaun Ketterman
Rules Q&A and Publications for 1/1/13 Document (4/24/13 Updates)
Rating: *****
Downloads: 3303
Views: 5430
Filesize: 28.07KB
Date: April 25, 2013, 05:45:34 pm
Comments (0)
By: Shaun Ketterman

Powered by EzPortal