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Author Topic: Redoing a jam?  (Read 4403 times)

Offline Das Boot Her

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Redoing a jam?
« on: October 16, 2012, 12:19:44 am »
I had a situation arise this weekend where, unfortunately, two lead jammers were called.  When the second lead jammer called off the jam, unfortunately, a majority of the people (skaters and refs) did not hear it and kept skating the particpating in the jam- myself included.  Because of this, we had to do an official review to determine where the first/correct lead jammer was within the pack to ensure points were awarded correctly. 

During the official review when everyone was discussing the situation, one of the other refs suggested that we redo the entire jam as a whole.  As the head ref, I determined that there was enough people who were still watching the pack/jammer and were able to come up with an agreement between all of us.  Now that it has been a couple days, I can't help but to think about this more.  In my situation, redoing an entire jam hadn't crossed my mind.  I always thought of this as a very, very last resort.  But... am I incorrect?  I was just curious what other situations refs have run into where they did have to go back and redo an entire jam.
-Booter
Das Boot Her

Cedar Valley Derby Divas
Waterloo, IA

randi.leuenhagen@gmail.com

Offline Major Wood

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Re: Redoing a jam?
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2012, 12:52:08 am »
It's not a last resort. It's not an option. Ever. For any reason.
Your friendly Zebra Huddle admin.

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I speak only of my opinions and interpretations.

Offline kornable

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Re: Redoing a jam?
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2012, 12:56:46 am »
i would never "redo" a jam.
there are heaps of reasons to not redo a jam, one of the more imporant ones being, skaters receiving penalties during the jam that you are trying to erase and skaters serving penalty time during the jam that you are trying to erase.

the situation that you describe is a tough one.
i would certainly start that meeting with a talk about repeating whistles and continuing to call off the jam if there is any confusion. I also tell jam refs to face the pack with their 1st set of 4 whistles if they are on the other side of the track. getting those 4 loud whistles to the other refs and the pack is very important.

as for the official review, i would say you need to use your best judgment and all the information available to you to determin when the jam ended.

as to the double lead i would remind the front pack ref to tell jam refs if lead is taken or available. in situations that this happens i also appologise to captains for the officiating crew error.

it's also important to not penalise the skater for an illegal call off if she was incorrectly signaled as lead.

Offline Das Boot Her

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Re: Redoing a jam?
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2012, 03:47:41 am »
No penalties were assessed in this situation.  During the official review I did stress the need/importance of loud, clear whistles and echoing them when a jam is called off.

I guess the reason I thought that a jam redo may be a viable option under extremely rare circumstances was because I recalled seeing it discussed previously.  I have personally never seen a jam redo occur since I've been a ref, but I thought it was something I was very fortunate never to have had to deal with.  The day after the bout I was doing some additional research and found a thread:

http://www.zebrahuddle.com/index.php?topic=661.msg11078#msg11078

(and I know this is an old thread and I may be taking it out of context)

It's hard to say how this should have been handled, but one thing's for sure: those points were not awarded in error, and should not have been taken away.  While it was an official's error that allowed her on the track to score those points, that's not the same thing as points awarded in error. 

Redoing a jam is really a last resort.  Is this a situation that called for it?  I don't know...I'll be curious to hear what others think.  (And in the case that you do have to redo a jam, I believe all points and penalties are "taken back," and the time is put back on the clock).


But, I'm really happy to have this clarification and am now confident I made the correct decision.
-Booter
Das Boot Her

Cedar Valley Derby Divas
Waterloo, IA

randi.leuenhagen@gmail.com

Offline Darkjester

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Re: Redoing a jam?
« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2012, 07:57:44 am »
Its more a a growth since 2009.

As derby has become better officiated (not saying that in the past they were lacking officiating, just that as a Sport as a whole we've continued to improve), there are many practices which were grown out of.

The "Do Over" was one of the rarer ones, that hopefully has become obsolete everywhere. Mistakes are going to happen in officiating, however, a 'do over' doesn't fix them and in many cases could only compound them.
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Offline Samuel Bergus

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Re: Redoing a jam?
« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2012, 02:04:34 pm »
I also tell jam refs to face the pack with their 1st set of 4 whistles if they are on the other side of the track. getting those 4 loud whistles to the other refs and the pack is very important.

One thing I observed being done at the south central tournament (I think it was Rawk doing it) was the jam ref cupping his hand over his whistle to deflect the sound towards the pack while keeping his eyes on his jammer.

I wasn't working on a crew, so I don't know if this helped or not, but I know some ZH members were. I was wondering if they thought this helped, and if they would advise other refs to do the same.

Offline SeerSin

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Re: Redoing a jam?
« Reply #6 on: October 18, 2012, 04:35:57 pm »
Jam refs should, especially in loud venues like South Centrals, direct their whistles toward the pack. It's a good habit to get into.

 

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