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Author Topic: How many trips to the box?  (Read 4762 times)

Offline Yvel Saint Laurent

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How many trips to the box?
« on: November 04, 2012, 01:04:20 am »
So, I guess I'll take the blame as HR for this one as it's unfair on my NSO crew as we're not sure quite what went wrong...

Non sanctioned, non regulation, intraleague game but May2010 compliant.

As a jam in the 2nd period ends the Penalty Box manager gets my attention to ask for an official time out - and I know her well enough to know that it'll take longer than the 30 seconds I otherwise have. Her record of box trips indicates that a red blocker is on her 7th trip (none of which are as a substitute). The whiteboard shows 6 penalty turns, as does the tracker's sheet.

Unfortunately as the tracker on that board was new, she'd not realised she needed to note the jam numbers as the penalties were assessed so we've no way of cross referencing the trips vs the majors issued.

We decided in the end to defer to the penalty tracking sheet, as that's the sheet of record and we couldn't justify penalizing a skater that we had no penalty registered for, and treat it as a sixth trip.

Later discussion during debrief suggested that possibly she had self reported in error after a minor penalty was assessed, and we (as refs) had missed this and failed to recall her from the box. We'll probably never really know though.

Does the panel have any thoughts on this, or shall I just put my hands up and buy the first round? (And at least there'll be no more minors to confuse us soon - and that was almost certainly our last home game of the year)
Official at Rainy City Roller Derby, and Knights of Oldham Roller Derby (Manchester, UK).
MRDA recognized official. WFTDA Lvl 2 NSO.

Offline Bishop

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Re: How many trips to the box?
« Reply #1 on: November 04, 2012, 01:56:05 am »
I've always used the penalty tracking sheets as the official source.   Ideally your tracker catches this during/between jams when they notice that a skater is in the box but there isn't a penalty recorded for that skater.  Sometimes this is caused by a Jammer ref or OPR issuing a penalty that never gets properly recorded.  Of course, it can also be the scenario where a minor is issued and the skater goes to the box on her own.  I think you have to give the skater the benefit of the doubt on this and defer to the tracking sheets.

However, you should be aware of the possibility of the tracking sheets having more penalties recorded than were committed.  For example, a double-reported penalty when an IPR ref calls a back block and an OPR calls forearms.  The delay in the OPR's reporting obscures the fact that it was the same action. I've also heard of the tracker having too many trips recorded b/c they made a mistake when recording penalties due to similar numbers (e.g. '66' and '666'). 
« Last Edit: November 04, 2012, 02:05:43 am by Bishop »
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Offline Riff Reff

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Re: How many trips to the box?
« Reply #2 on: November 04, 2012, 01:22:02 pm »
Quote
Later discussion during debrief suggested that possibly she had self reported in error after a minor penalty was assessed, and we (as refs) had missed this and failed to recall her from the box. We'll probably never really know though.

Does the panel have any thoughts on this, or shall I just put my hands up and buy the first round? [...]

This! Whatever happened (skater went to the box in error or a penalty was called but not recorded) it is an official's error and the skater should not suffer from it. Therefore you would always assume it's 6 trips rather than 7.
Don't look at the game with rules-tinted glasses; look at the rules with game-tinted glasses!

Offline Eject You Later

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Re: How many trips to the box?
« Reply #3 on: November 04, 2012, 01:52:02 pm »
In general, yes, go with the tracking sheets.  There are always exceptions to the rule, however.

I had a bout recently in which I found out during an Officials Timeout to sort out this issue that one of my Penalty Trackers was new, and one of the penalty box timers was new.  The issue was that a skater was sitting in the penalty box for her 2nd box trip, but the white board only showed 1 box trip.  I asked the tracker who indicated she only had 1 trip.  I called the box timer over and requested to see his paperwork.  It wasn't filled out correctly (yay?).  So I could not verify how many times she had been in the box from his paperwork, and as mentioned above, both the penalty tracker and the inside white board showed 1 trip instead of 2.

However, the reason this is the exception is that the skater in the box was a regular jammer for her team, and the jammer ref asserted that he sent her to the penalty box twice and was able to recount both penalties.  Furthermore, the line up tracker had come to the center and was able to show me his sheet in which he recorded both box trips for that skater with corresponding jam numbers.  With that information we corrected the penalty tracker's sheets, to show both penalties, corrected the white board, corrected the penalty box timer's sheet, had a couple minutes "re-training" session, and then went on with the game.

In short, use the information available to you to make as accurate of a determination as possible as to what happened.  When in doubt plead down.  But if you have sources that you trust then use them.
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