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Author Topic: Slapping  (Read 8892 times)

Offline Cliquework

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Re: Slapping
« Reply #15 on: November 28, 2012, 05:10:44 pm »
Yeah, I think there's a thread around here discussing that... The original thread dealt with simply tapping on one's shoulder I think. No impact was the call..

For this thread:

A tiny tap on the shoulder to make the opponent look the other way....

A pat on the shoulder to do the same effect...

An accidental but hard slap on the back due to being off balance and falling...

A firm, obvious, open face slap on the back that doesn't move the person but obviously hurts like hell....

Context. Some are penalizable, some aren't. Depends on if it has risen to the level of threat necessary for penalty. When is that? When there's no question that it has. In this example it sounds as though the slap was clear and deliberate. It sounds as though it clearly and visibly hurt (a "hard" hit that "stings for a minute" should be visible). A deliberate hit, under full control of the person doing the hitting and how hard they're doing so, must have been intended to hurt as much as distract. Sounds like it has risen to "that level".
« Last Edit: November 28, 2012, 07:32:04 pm by Cliquework »
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Offline Shaun Ketterman

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Re: Slapping
« Reply #16 on: November 28, 2012, 05:13:13 pm »
I've judged this as illegal contact with the forearms (which it is) and used the metric that if that illegal contact allowed the jammer to make her pass then a major forearm penalty was issued.  If it didn't, or I could not be certain of it then it was a no call.

I agree with you that a hand/forearm touch that's less than 3 seconds is no impact. 

I don't agree with raising the impact based on what the touched opponent chose to do in regards to it.  The touch was definitively no impact. The opponent may have been "fooled" into reacting to it the way the jammer wanted her to, but the jammer didn't force her to do anything.  Basically being fooled was on the opponent.  Everything in 6.5.8 that makes this action illegal is contingent on the word "forces". The jammer didn't force the blocker to do anything; the blocker did it herself.  I wouldn't raise this to the level of a major.   
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Offline Shaun Ketterman

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Re: Slapping
« Reply #17 on: November 28, 2012, 05:27:01 pm »
A intentional "Slap" I would consider "fighting" and expel.

I think we agree in spirit, but I'm going to flex pedantic here and say why I think "fighting" isn't the right way to look at this and why 6.17.6 isn't what should be applied. 

If we're going to consider a suckerpunch or even a slap a fight, by the rules, the jam must be called off.

[rule]9.2.6.2 A referee must call off a jam for any of the following reasons:
9.2.6.2.4 Fighting.[/rule]

You probably remember the "Punch Heard 'Round the World" from a few years back.  In the moment of seeing that, I thought: "Why didn't they call off the jam?" Well, looking back the reason being was that a suckerpunch isn't a fight.  We don't have a fight until people are physically fighting.  I know this is pedantic, but it makes the difference in calling a jam or not.  Once people are in a physical struggle we have a fight as defined by 6.17.6.  Someone hitting a person and that person more or less bearing it without fighting back means the hitter is expelled and the jam goes on.  When a person hits back, multiple people are getting expelled and the jam ends.
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Offline Bishop

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Re: Slapping
« Reply #18 on: November 28, 2012, 07:25:44 pm »

<snip>

You probably remember the "Punch Heard 'Round the World" from a few years back.  In the moment of seeing that, I thought: "Why didn't they call off the jam?" Well, looking back the reason being was that a suckerpunch isn't a fight.  We don't have a fight until people are physically fighting.  I know this is pedantic, but it makes the difference in calling a jam or not.  Once people are in a physical struggle we have a fight as defined by 6.17.6.  Someone hitting a person and that person more or less bearing it without fighting back means the hitter is expelled and the jam goes on.  When a person hits back, multiple people are getting expelled and the jam ends.
I don't want to derail this thread so here's a link to that discussion:

When is it Fighting?

I do want to point out that not calling that jam was highly controverisal.  Also, Major Wood seemed to recall that the jam was indeed called - just not immediately. 

If I remember correctly, the jam was called off. The signal was made very close to the time that the jam was called off. I was in the penalty box for that bout.
from the "Recommending Suspension - Split from: Me tarzan, you vine!" thread

Referees should also be aware that not calling a jam in response to something that could reasonably be construed as a fight could be subjecting themselves to legal action. 

Apologies for that slight derail.  If anyone would like to discuss this further, please quote this post and respond in the "When is it Fighting?" thread.

« Last Edit: November 28, 2012, 07:45:03 pm by Bishop »
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Offline Sir SkateAlot

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Re: Slapping
« Reply #19 on: November 29, 2012, 01:40:34 pm »
No one wants roller derby to be a game where people are slapping each other. And it worries me you guys have to look desperately for interpretations to handle this situation.
This looks to me as a possible loophole WFTDA should close as soon as possible. By adding a rule that clearly makes slapping illegal.

Offline RazRef

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Re: Slapping
« Reply #20 on: November 29, 2012, 02:55:14 pm »
I personally think that this whole slapping scenario goes with 6.5.7.1 depending on how the skater who received the slap reacts (stumbled etc...).  I don't think that slapping another player to get past her is very sportswoman-like and it shouldn't be something skaters should get used to since it seems intentional.  The WFTDA should definitely clarify this.

 

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