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Author Topic: Multiplayer blocking  (Read 43471 times)

Offline Darkjester

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Re: Multiplayer blocking
« Reply #30 on: January 23, 2009, 09:55:38 pm »
Except the forearms are across the other persons body. The only 'gap' between them is at the elbows to shoulders where they made the X. Which is a 'legal' blocking zone, its the 'pressing of the forearm/hand' to the fellow blockers chest that makes it a wall, and in my opinion, an illegal multi player block as they are now 'joined'.

It sucks, but I might be able to get my wife and daughter to pose for a 'photo' of such so we can get better understanding of what I'm trying to describe in words.

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Offline Slammylou Harris

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Re: Multiplayer blocking
« Reply #31 on: January 23, 2009, 11:23:15 pm »
Except the forearms are across the other persons body. The only 'gap' between them is at the elbows to shoulders where they made the X. Which is a 'legal' blocking zone, its the 'pressing of the forearm/hand' to the fellow blockers chest that makes it a wall, and in my opinion, an illegal multi player block as they are now 'joined'.

It sucks, but I might be able to get my wife and daughter to pose for a 'photo' of such so we can get better understanding of what I'm trying to describe in words.



yes please!

i've been lurking on this particular post but yr wording best describes what i have been envisioning. the pressing together of crossed arms is exactly what is "joining" these players. crossing and not touching or even possibly touching at very short intervals should be legal, right?

Offline Poobah

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Re: Multiplayer blocking
« Reply #32 on: January 24, 2009, 12:58:06 am »
Except the forearms are across the other persons body. The only 'gap' between them is at the elbows to shoulders where they made the X. Which is a 'legal' blocking zone, its the 'pressing of the forearm/hand' to the fellow blockers chest that makes it a wall, and in my opinion, an illegal multi player block as they are now 'joined'.

The point I'm trying to make is that even if it's not considered a multi-player block, it's begging for a hands and forearm penalty. It's not as if the forearms were just there and the jammer skated into them. They were put up in order to block her. If she skates through them she should at least be able to draw a H&F penalty on the both of them.

There's skaters out there who believe that this may be a borderline legal legal form of multi-player blocking. They seem to forget that they'd be doing it with an illegal body part.
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Offline Darkjester

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Re: Multiplayer blocking
« Reply #33 on: January 24, 2009, 04:54:07 pm »
The only way it would be a hands or forearm penalty is if the blockers in question, 'moved' to block her with them.  If they just held their position and 'she' initiated the contact, she is the blocker and they are counterblocking.  Hands are forearms are legal "Target" zones for a blocker, but not legal "blocking" zones for them to hit with, if that makes sense.

I.E. If I shoulder block into you, I can hit your entire arm including forearms and hands as a blocker.
You cannot however hit me with your forearm, elbow or hands if you are blocking me.

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Offline Endless Justin

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Re: Multiplayer blocking
« Reply #34 on: January 24, 2009, 07:24:04 pm »
I'm pretty confident that it's been clarified that there needs to be a clenching or grabbing, not just contact, if it's with an open hand it's legal. The original X block described should be legal if it's what I'm picturing.

It could stand to be further clarified.

What is your opinion of the shoulder to shoulder positional block?

shoulder to shoulder positional blocking is awesome.  good team play and not illegal.
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Offline Endless Justin

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Re: Multiplayer blocking
« Reply #35 on: January 24, 2009, 07:28:46 pm »
responding to two comments at once:


So, what's touching vs. grabbing, holding, linking or joining (especially joining)?


I'm pretty confident that it's been clarified that there needs to be a clenching or grabbing, not just contact, if it's with an open hand it's legal. The original X block described should be legal if it's what I'm picturing.

rev is correct when he refers to clenching. 
open handed touching is not illegal.
closed hand grabbing is illegal.  expect when it's an assist of some sort. 


6.2.7.3 Touching and assisting teammates that does not create a wall to impede an opponent is not a multi-player block.
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Offline Darkjester

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Re: Multiplayer blocking
« Reply #36 on: January 25, 2009, 12:00:26 am »
Thanks for jumping in Justin.  So next time there's a rulebook as a member of the Rules committee can you ask on behalf of us, for them to remove the "Joining" and switch 'holding with "Clenched hold"

I know how hard it can be working with rules, I'm a member of a combat Larp thats been going on for over twenty years now and we're STILL redifining and clarifying rules as things come into play.
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Offline Ballistic Whistle

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Re: Multiplayer blocking
« Reply #37 on: January 26, 2009, 04:18:00 pm »
The only way it would be a hands or forearm penalty is if the blockers in question, 'moved' to block her with them.  If they just held their position and 'she' initiated the contact, she is the blocker and they are counterblocking.  Hands are forearms are legal "Target" zones for a blocker, but not legal "blocking" zones for them to hit with, if that makes sense.
I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that the following section from the rules implies that incidental forearm contact whereby the arms are not pulled into the body (what I believe you're describing) is punishable by a forearm penalty.

6.2.3.2 Incidental forearm contact between skaters is acceptable when the arms are pulled into the body to absorb the force of a block.

Offline Darkjester

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Re: Multiplayer blocking
« Reply #38 on: January 27, 2009, 04:00:36 am »
I think you've misread that.

The entire arm is a legal target zone. The hands/forearms/elbows is an illegal blocking zone.

If I am blocking a person and I hit them in the arms, with a legal elbow-shoulder block, no foul, even if I hit 'them' in the hands/wrist/forearms/elbow.

Now if they swing, their arms ( a counter-block) and they hit ME with the above, it would be illegal and depending on impact, a penalty. Incidental contact however, as you posted is permissible when pulled in to accept a blow.

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Offline Ballistic Whistle

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Re: Multiplayer blocking
« Reply #39 on: January 27, 2009, 08:55:54 am »
But doesn't that rule's sentence imply that the skater in question is receiving a hit - to absorb the force of a block?

And therefore if you absorb the force of a block by having your arms outstretched you would be in violation of 6.2.3.2.

I see what your saying though. It seems in this instance, as there is no movement made towards the incoming block, that it's not a counter block and therefore the arm is a target zone rather than a blocking zone.

You've given me food for thought so I might put this one to the rules clarifications to try and get a final word.

Offline Major Wood

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Re: Multiplayer blocking
« Reply #40 on: January 27, 2009, 01:02:02 pm »
Always consider who is initiating the block. Also, take a look over the legal target and blocking zones diagrams.
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Offline Jessticular Fortitude

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Re: Multiplayer blocking
« Reply #41 on: January 27, 2009, 06:42:03 pm »
Can we possibly move this discussion of counter blocking to another thread? Seeing as it's not being related to multiplayer blocks anymore....
Hey look, a search function! Right up there! No on the left

Perhaps we should all spend a little more time reading and a little less time making shit up.

Offline DayGlo Divine

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Re: Multiplayer blocking
« Reply #42 on: January 27, 2009, 06:48:28 pm »
Can we possibly move this discussion of counter blocking to another thread? Seeing as it's not being related to multiplayer blocks anymore....

Done.

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Offline Death by Roxy

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Re: Multiplayer blocking
« Reply #43 on: February 07, 2009, 03:44:36 am »
Quote

shoulder to shoulder positional blocking is awesome.  good team play and not illegal.
Endless Justin, I see you are the WFTDA rules committee chair so obviously you know better than anyone. But I really have to say due to the wording in 6.2.7.3 (Touching and assisting teammates that does not create a wall to impede an opponent is not a multi-player block) The shoulder to shoulder blocking (which in my experience has always been considered legal) seems more like a perfect definition of a multi player block as the current wording stands.
So, what is a wall ???
« Last Edit: February 07, 2009, 03:47:27 am by Death by Roxy »
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Offline Crotch Rock-It

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Re: Multiplayer blocking
« Reply #44 on: February 16, 2009, 06:38:17 pm »
At my team's last bout, which I was unable to attend, one of my team's skaters got a major for a multi-player block that I disagree with.  The alleged offense was that she intentionally pushed one of her teammates into an opposing skater to block her.  The pushed teammate then completed a legal block against the opposing skater by using the momentum from the push.

The pushing skater was then given a major for multiplayer blocking.  However, my understanding is that pushing teammates into opposing skaters is perfectly legal and that no penalty should have been given, multiplayer blocking or otherwise.

Please let me know if my understanding is correct here.

 

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