Menu

ZH Classifieds
ZH Files
ZH Staff
WFTDA 12/1/2014 Rules
WFTDA 3/1/2014 Rules

Donate

Please Support Zebra Huddle!

Recent Posts

Re: Jammer's time in penalty box by 3Beers
April 26, 2020, 09:46:33 pm

Getting officials attention by Rego_Derby
March 03, 2020, 04:05:02 am

Re: Jammer's time in penalty box by Major Wood
February 05, 2020, 05:52:31 pm

Jammer's time in penalty box by 3Beers
January 29, 2020, 03:33:20 am

Nashville Roller Derby 2020 Scrimmage-A-Thon - 7/11/2020 by Major Wood
January 27, 2020, 09:36:38 pm

Re: Rule clarification by 3Beers
January 26, 2020, 08:09:00 pm

Re: Rule clarification by Bluebeard
January 17, 2020, 05:26:46 am

Rule clarification by 3Beers
December 28, 2019, 06:04:00 pm

Re: Resources for new referees. by Destructor
November 29, 2019, 01:13:40 pm

Resources for new referees. by Destructor
November 26, 2019, 06:01:48 pm

Author Topic: Multiplayer blocking  (Read 43559 times)

Offline Major Wood

  • Administrator
  • Has Too Much Damn Time Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2665
  • Stats Sheet: 77
  • League Affiliation: Nashville Rollergirls
  • Referee Certification Level: Level 5
  • NSO Certification Level: Not Certified
Re: Multiplayer blocking
« Reply #60 on: February 27, 2009, 01:39:38 pm »
If a skater maintains a certain skating stance, she is not responsible for others tripping over her legs or the like.
Your friendly Zebra Huddle admin.

Nashville Roller Derby Head Ref
WFTDA Level 5 Certified Referee

I speak only of my opinions and interpretations.

Offline Endless Justin

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 53
  • Stats Sheet: 16
  • Gotham Girls Roller Derby
Re: Multiplayer blocking
« Reply #61 on: February 27, 2009, 03:15:00 pm »
5.1.2 The skater who makes contact with a target zone of an opponent is considered the initiator of the block. The initiator of the block is always responsible for the legality of the contact.

Justin, I really don't mean to sound like a jerk, but if that rule always applies, then if a girl is skating around with her leg out, and another girls skates into it and trips and falls down, wouldn't the skater who was tripped get a penalty for a low block (albeit no impact if the tripper never faltered)?

The use of the word "always" in this rule is 100% intentional and accurate.   

I'm here trying to help by offering insight that really no one else can provide, so please make efforts to respect the experience and time I'm giving. 
Gotham Girls Roller Disco
WFTDA Rules Committee
www.justincampoy.com

Offline Endless Justin

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 53
  • Stats Sheet: 16
  • Gotham Girls Roller Derby
Re: Multiplayer blocking
« Reply #62 on: February 27, 2009, 03:15:25 pm »
If a skater maintains a certain skating stance, she is not responsible for others tripping over her legs or the like.

what he said.

eg

if player A is skating with her elbows up and out (locked, stationary etc.), and player B skates face first into said elbow, it is not a foul on player A.  player B initiated the contact with her face.  
Gotham Girls Roller Disco
WFTDA Rules Committee
www.justincampoy.com

Offline Darkjester

  • Has Too Much Damn Time Member
  • ********************
  • Posts: 3067
  • Stats Sheet: 39
  • "When in doubt, RTFM"
  • League Affiliation: Beach Brawl SK8R Dolls
  • Referee Certification Level: Not Certified
  • NSO Certification Level: Not Certified
Re: Multiplayer blocking
« Reply #63 on: February 27, 2009, 04:27:24 pm »
I'm not arguing.. As I said earlier, I get what your saying, I just disagree with how its worded.

However.. For the sake of discussion, the MPB section doesn't say anything about a block being needed, only that 2 or more players join to create a wall to impede an opponent. The length of time they are joined is whether or not its a Minor or Major. So even in the examples I showed, they were joined, the other skater skated legally into them, they were still blocking her.

However, I will go with the 'intent' that an assist is not meant to be called as a MPB in the future, like I said, I get what your saying, I just don't agree with the wording.
Madness Tolls
69¢
Beach Brawl Sk8R Dolls
Fort Walton Beach FL

Offline Ref Neck

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 178
  • Stats Sheet: 15
Re: Multiplayer blocking
« Reply #64 on: March 01, 2009, 10:32:09 am »
You can't really disagree with a rule and change how it is supposed to be called though. Hell, I think its hilarious that the ruleset has a rule that says refs can't make up rules (8.3.1.2).
DC Rollergirls, Head Referee

Offline Stegoscorus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 773
  • Stats Sheet: 51
  • STOP. Collaborate, and listen.
  • League Affiliation: Rose City Rollers
  • Referee Certification Level: Level 3
  • NSO Certification Level: Not Certified
Re: Multiplayer blocking
« Reply #65 on: March 01, 2009, 09:43:52 pm »
2.
This is a penalty that some refs want to call, which I do not understand.  And by want, I mean they kind of fish for it and see it when it isn't there.

That's because it's the most fun hand signal!  ;) 

3.
Understand the genesis and history of this rule and you will call it more accurately. 
Rules 2.1.1 had this rule in it:
5.3.9 Skaters may not join arms or hands in a multiple-player block.
Which by extension technically made it legal to form a MPB by grabbing uniforms, legs, belts, hair, anything except arms and hands.  That was a loophole that had to be closed.  Nobody used that loophole, probably because they thought/felt/believed it to be illegal.  Two players could have spent all day blocking while tightly grabbing each others' climbing harnesses it they wanted, but that was certainly against the spirit of the rule.   3.1 essentially changed that rule to be what everyone already thought the rules was.  There was great consideration to keep assists of all kinds legal, pages and pages and pages of talk and talk-talk.  Under 2.1.1 hardly anybody called this penalty, and yet suddenly in 3.1 we have people calling it MORE often, and yet the rules now give you reasons NOT to call it.

For the record, our skaters definitely used this loophole, and we were all glad when it was clarified.  And by we, I don't just mean refs; skaters tend to be relieved too when a gap between the intent and the letter of the rule is closed.  Even if the rule set says a lot more about it, I find it to be much more straight forward to understand and explain.  The Rules Committee's energy on this one was not in vain!

Maybe the real reason it's called more is because of all the attention it received as it was being redefined to include uniforms, and the addition of its own hand signal.  That kind of thing can make refs feel like there's something there that they're missing, or forgetting to scan for as they watch the pack.  I personally have never felt like I see it a whole lot, especially since jersey stretching walls were clarified as a no-no.
WFTDA Certified Referee - Level 3
Founding Member, ARROW
Portland, OR, U.S.A.

Offline bronco

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 372
  • Stats Sheet: 9
  • rules and stripes forever!
Re: Multiplayer blocking
« Reply #66 on: March 02, 2009, 08:40:34 am »
I can't tell you how many skaters are surprised when I explain that initiators are responsible.  Blocker attempts to hit Jammer, Jammer ducks and gets hit in the head.  "Why is it my fault, she got hit in the head 'coz she ducked?"

5.1.2 The skater who makes contact with a target zone of an opponent is considered the initiator of the block. The initiator of the block is always responsible for the legality of the contact.

Justin, I really don't mean to sound like a jerk, but if that rule always applies, then if a girl is skating around with her leg out, and another girls skates into it and trips and falls down, wouldn't the skater who was tripped get a penalty for a low block (albeit no impact if the tripper never faltered)?

The use of the word "always" in this rule is 100% intentional and accurate.   

I'm here trying to help by offering insight that really no one else can provide, so please make efforts to respect the experience and time I'm giving. 
... Ref. Bronco

Offline Miranda Wrights

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 23
  • Stats Sheet: 2
Re: Multiplayer blocking
« Reply #67 on: March 05, 2009, 08:31:19 pm »
Quote
I've filled out a WFTDA Clarifications request on this question since there are many of us of different interpretations of 'joining'. Hopefully they will deem my question worthy and provide an answer. I know they are VERY busy and VERY few volunteers who answer them.

Awesome!  But this parsing out is waaaay too much fun.

Returning to the deep nerdery of how "joining" gets expressed in a MPB, dictionary.com defines joining as "to bring in contact, connect, or bring or put together: to join hands; to join pages with a staple."  This reading indicates that there is "object to object" contact that has the intention to bind together at the point of contact.  I.e. put your hand in mine and we are joined. 

So if arms are extended in the X position but there is clearly no grabbing or holding, are they bound together even if they are resting/lightly touching the other blocker's body?  Clearly if their arms are extended but not touching the other blocker (i.e. floating 6" in front of the other blocker's body) there is no joining.  Even if they were touching the other blocker with their hand, they would not be bound because to be bound would mean that there would have to be some action to be released from the contact. 

Wadda think>
Miranda Wrights
Head Ref
Hellions of Troy (Troy NY)

Offline Major Wood

  • Administrator
  • Has Too Much Damn Time Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2665
  • Stats Sheet: 77
  • League Affiliation: Nashville Rollergirls
  • Referee Certification Level: Level 5
  • NSO Certification Level: Not Certified
Re: Multiplayer blocking
« Reply #68 on: March 05, 2009, 10:59:24 pm »
open handed touching is not illegal.
closed hand grabbing is illegal.  expect when it's an assist of some sort. 

This is as close to an official definition of joining as we will get on here. Note that it is not in the rules or on the rules.wftda.com site.
Your friendly Zebra Huddle admin.

Nashville Roller Derby Head Ref
WFTDA Level 5 Certified Referee

I speak only of my opinions and interpretations.

 

Featured Product

 

Zebra Huddle Head Referee Bout Booklet

 

Featured Classifieds


ZH Files

How to Score a Point in Roller Derby
Rating: *****
Downloads: 4418
Views: 7399
Filesize: 327.61KB
Date: January 17, 2017, 04:21:03 am
Comments (0)
By: AdamSmasher
June 2013 Ruleset situational questions
Rating: *****
Downloads: 2922
Views: 6011
Filesize: 29.71KB
Date: February 07, 2014, 04:57:32 pm
Comments (2)
By: Crash Test Ref
Rules Q&A and Publications for 6/15/13 Document
Rating: (None)
Downloads: 3126
Views: 6912
Filesize: 26.27KB
Date: August 02, 2013, 04:10:40 pm
Comments (0)
By: Shaun Ketterman
Rules Q&A and Publications for 1/1/13 Document (4/24/13 Updates)
Rating: *****
Downloads: 3950
Views: 8939
Filesize: 28.07KB
Date: April 25, 2013, 05:45:34 pm
Comments (0)
By: Shaun Ketterman

Powered by EzPortal