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Author Topic: Penalty accumulation while in the queue  (Read 9553 times)

Offline Mac Ramaniac

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Penalty accumulation while in the queue
« on: January 12, 2013, 05:36:13 pm »
So your crew is awesome, that is a given.

If you were going to assign an infield NSO to communicate (to SO) that a skater in the queue has accumulated an additional penalty, which position would you designate that job to?

Do you give an infield NSO the authority to communicate the total penalty service time directly to penalty box staff? Or does it go through an SO?
Independent NSO
Wisconsin

Offline Darkjester

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Re: Penalty accumulation while in the queue
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2013, 06:04:15 pm »
Penalty Tracker/White Board Operator. In the past it would be the Wrangler, but since that position has become obsolete I'd move it to the Tracker/Operator as a back up to the Skating official.
Madness Tolls
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Beach Brawl Sk8R Dolls
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Offline FNZebra

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Re: Penalty accumulation while in the queue
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2013, 08:13:20 pm »
Let me just say that NO positions have become officially obsolete yet.

I was speaking recently with a HNSO of a highly ranked WFTDA league that was reconsidering OWBs for some of their bouts.

Currently all leagues are encouraged to experiment, and work out what works best for the combination of their officiating crews (SO & NSO) and their venue.
You will bout as you practice.


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FN Zebra
Bleeding Heartland Roller Derby (WFTDA)
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Offline Eject You Later

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Re: Penalty accumulation while in the queue
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2013, 08:22:02 pm »
I was speaking recently with a HNSO of a highly ranked WFTDA league that was reconsidering OWBs for some of their bouts.

Having done a couple of scrimmages (no games yet), OPR penalty calling is definitely a concern I have.  I've been instructing my OPRs to ensure their calls are loud and their hand signals visible.  I've also been telling them that once their skater has left the track to look to the inside, make eye contact with the trangler (haven't quite decided on a single wrangler + single penalty tracker, or dual trackers and no wrangler) and repeat the hand signal until they receive a confirmation.  If they are unable to get a confirmation then check in between jams to ensure their penalty has been recorded accurately.

I believe we can deprecate the OWBs.  However, it will take some training of OPRs to make this smooth.  Yes, they should already be making their calls loud and their hand signals visible.  But the OWBs can hide some inexperience and/or poor habits.
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Offline Darkjester

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Re: Penalty accumulation while in the queue
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2013, 09:05:50 pm »
Let me just say that NO positions have become officially obsolete yet.

Good catch FN!
I swear I had read somewhere that Wrangler was obsolete and that it would be Penaltry Tracker/Inside Whiteboard Combination, but upon reviewing the Standardized Practices Document from wftda.com I was in error.

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Offline MC NINJA

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Re: Penalty accumulation while in the queue
« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2013, 04:58:03 am »
If you were going to assign an infield NSO to communicate (to SO) that a skater in the queue has accumulated an additional penalty, which position would you designate that job to?

What is a skater in the queue? And what are we communicating?

Offline MC NINJA

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Re: Penalty accumulation while in the queue
« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2013, 04:59:53 am »
It sound like a forbidden verbal que??????????

Offline MC NINJA

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Re: Penalty accumulation while in the queue
« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2013, 05:03:49 am »
How is a skater "in the queue?"

Offline Eject You Later

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Re: Penalty accumulation while in the queue
« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2013, 02:43:56 pm »
How is a skater "in the queue?"

A blocker is sent to the penalty box for a penalty.  The penalty box already has 2 blockers seated.  There may not be 3 blockers seated in the penalty box.  So the blocker is waived back to the track and is in queue.  When one of the seated blockers stands the in queue blocker is sent back to the penalty box to serve her penalty.

While she is on the track she may accumulate additional penalties.
Eject You Later - Referee
Old Capitol City Roller Girls of Coralville, IA
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Offline Sintax

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Re: Penalty accumulation while in the queue
« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2013, 09:49:22 pm »
Like Eject, so far I've only scrimmaged but this is how I'm leaning; We keep the wrangler, authorise the penalty box manager to pass on possible penalties to either OPR or wrangler, and increase the habitual eyes on checks on the penalty box. I'm also a tad concerned about the OPRs.
Over-thinking is a good thing.

Referee and Master of Officials, skating with South Side Derby Dolls, Australia.

Offline molotovmuffin

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Re: Penalty accumulation while in the queue
« Reply #10 on: February 09, 2013, 07:18:38 pm »
How is a skater "in the queue?"

A blocker is sent to the penalty box for a penalty.  The penalty box already has 2 blockers seated.  There may not be 3 blockers seated in the penalty box.  So the blocker is waived back to the track and is in queue.  When one of the seated blockers stands the in queue blocker is sent back to the penalty box to serve her penalty.

While she is on the track she may accumulate additional penalties.
We had a bout that had several skaters in que and although it was confusing and a bit difficult to straighten out (who was sent first, second), it was manageable since the box manager had a wht board to keep track of who was in que.

The new rules are going to make things interesting when bout season starts in earnest and I look forward to playing around with staffing.

Offline ShoNuff

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Re: Penalty accumulation while in the queue
« Reply #11 on: February 11, 2013, 08:54:43 pm »
One thing to note is that you don't have to care who was sent first or second.

The queue is not literal.  When a seat opens, any skater owing penalty time can report.  There is no requirement for the first skater penalized to report first.

So while you do need to keep track of who owes time, you don't have to keep track of the order the penalties were issued.

Offline Samuel Bergus

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Re: Penalty accumulation while in the queue
« Reply #12 on: February 11, 2013, 09:16:41 pm »
The queue is not literal.  When a seat opens, any skater owing penalty time can report.  There is no requirement for the first skater penalized to report first.

To add to what Sho said, "any skater owing penalty time" can include a newly penalized skater. You shouldn't direct a skater to return to the track if there is an open chair for them to sit in.

Offline ShoNuff

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Re: Penalty accumulation while in the queue
« Reply #13 on: February 13, 2013, 08:25:35 pm »
So your crew is awesome, that is a given.

If you were going to assign an infield NSO to communicate (to SO) that a skater in the queue has accumulated an additional penalty, which position would you designate that job to?

Do you give an infield NSO the authority to communicate the total penalty service time directly to penalty box staff? Or does it go through an SO?

The answer to the original question is likely to vary some from crew to crew.

Who confirms that skaters sit in your crew?  It's usually the IWB, the wrangler or a little of both.  I prefer that to be part of the IWB's job, so to me the best person to relay multiple minutes to the box is the IWB.  If you have your wrangler take care of that, then they are the best person.

The key is, make it someone the box staff is regularly looking for so that they actually see the signal coming their way.

This should not have to be passed through an SO since no new penalty is being issued, the status of already issued penalties is being communicated.

Offline DocSkinner

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Re: Penalty accumulation while in the queue
« Reply #14 on: February 13, 2013, 11:52:43 pm »
The queue is not literal.  When a seat opens, any skater owing penalty time can report.  There is no requirement for the first skater penalized to report first.
To add to what Sho said, "any skater owing penalty time" can include a newly penalized skater. You shouldn't direct a skater to return to the track if there is an open chair for them to sit in.

While I cannot argue against this (I like it), I do wonder if this is based on a rule or clarification, or if it comes from the fact that there is no rule describing the creation of a queue.

[rule]7.2.2.2 No team may have more than two Blockers and one Jammer seated in the penalty box at a time. If a team has more than two penalized Blockers, the penalties will be served consecutively, i.e. the third Blocker will sit out once the first Blocker has served their penalty. [/rule]

It specifically says that the "third Blocker will sit out once" the seat is free. That suggests that the "third Blocker" is the one who should report, and not the fourth or subsequent.

The Standardized Practices document does refer to a queue, but only says that skaters in the queue should be reported to the referees between jams.

As I said, I would prefer to not worry about a queue order and accept any blocker who wants to sit. I just am not sure where that is spelled out. If it is a case of "since it is not defined, it doesn't exist" that's fine. But I can see an argument that the term "queue" implies an order.

 

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