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Author Topic: Star Pass?  (Read 5455 times)

Offline Jotaha

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Star Pass?
« on: January 28, 2013, 02:30:08 pm »
Yesterday while reffing a bout as Jammer Ref, we encountered the following situation:

Team A Blocker executed a block over Team B Jammer, wich was legal but had incidental and secondary contact to the head of the Jammer, wich caused the Jammer Helmet Cover to fall off the Jammer's Helmet with the Jammer not even noticing it.

Team B Pivot then proceded to recover the Jammer Helmet Cover and put it on her helmet, wich I considered to be an Illegal Initiation of the Pass and penalized her accordingly.

I'm now not so sure about my call, as while the Rules crearly state in 3.5.4 that the Jammer helmet cover may not be taken off the Jammer’s head by the Pivot or another skater and that in order to transfer the Jammer position to the Pivot, a Jammer must remove the Jammer helmet cover and hand it to their team’s Pivot, wich clearly didn't happen, it also states in 3.5.8.1 and 3.5.8.1.1 that if a Jammer helmet cover falls to the ground or is removed from play by any means, it may only be recovered by the Jammer or Pivot and that the Pivot is eligible to obtain Jammer status by retrieving a dropped Jammer helmet cover and placing it on their helmet unless the Jammer is in the penalty box.

So, was this a Legal or Illegal Star Pass?

[rule]3.5.4  Pass Procedure
In order to transfer the Jammer position to the Pivot, a Jammer must remove the Jammer helmet cover and hand it to their team’s Pivot. The Jammer helmet cover may not be handed off via other skaters or thrown. The Jammer helmet cover may not be taken off the Jammer’s head by the Pivot or another skater. A Jammer who has removed, or whose teammate has removed, the Jammer helmet cover has forfeited:[...]
[/rule]

[rule]
3.5.5.1   In an illegal star pass, the Jammer status is not transferred, even if the Pivot then has possession of the Jammer helmet cover. Both skaters retain their original status and the initiator of the pass is penalized accordingly (see Section 6.13 Illegal Procedures).

3.5.8.1   If a Jammer helmet cover falls to the ground or is removed from play by any means, it may only be recovered by the Jammer or Pivot.

3.5.8.1.1 The Pivot is eligible to obtain Jammer status by retrieving a dropped Jammer helmet cover and placing it on their helmet unless the Jammer is in the penalty box, in which case the Pivot will not be considered the Jammer until the original Jammer is released from the penalty box and legally returns to play.
[/rule]

[rule]6.13.26 Violations of the passing the star procedures outlined in Section 3.5 Passing The Star. The initiator of the star pass receives the penalty for the illegal star pass.[/rule]

Offline Shover Ducky

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Re: Star Pass?
« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2013, 03:23:06 pm »
I would call that as a legal recovery of the helmet cover since the cover had dropped, and the jammer should not have been on her way to the box for illegal star pass.
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Offline Darkjester

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Re: Star Pass?
« Reply #2 on: January 28, 2013, 05:33:48 pm »
This wasn't a star pass. Unfortunately "Cover Recovery" falls under the same section of Passing the Star, but isn't considered a Star Pass.

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Offline Jotaha

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Re: Star Pass?
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2013, 06:48:43 pm »
That's also what I'm thinking right now, after re-reading the rules and thinking quite a lot about it... I'm right now that I made the right call, but I would really like some more feedback about it :D

Offline Midnight Mark

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Re: Star Pass?
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2013, 07:11:59 am »
In this case, since there was no initiation of a star pass this is a cover recovery, i would consider the original jammer to be an inactive jammer, and the pivot wearing the jammer cover to still be a pivot and apply all the regular blocker related penalties.  I would bot issue an IP for illegal star pass in rhis case. 

Am i out to lunch in my thinking?

Offline Gossimerg

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Re: Star Pass?
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2013, 01:37:56 pm »
There is a problem with the initiation of the pass. 3.5.4 - In order to transfer the Jammer position to the Pivot, a Jammer must remove the Jammer helmet cover and hand it to their team’s Pivot. In the example the jammer did not remove her cover or even attempt to hand it to her pivot.

I don't think the Pivot should gain a penalty here for illegal completion because the pass was never "initiated." Also, since the jammer can be the only initiator, if a penalty were to be awarded it would have to go to the jammer. In this example there is no way we could assign blame to the jammer.
[rule]3.5.5.1 - In an illegal star pass, the Jammer status is not transferred, even if the Pivot then has possession of the Jammer helmet cover. Both skaters retain their original status and the initiator of the pass is penalized accordingly.[/rule] (emphasis mine)

I feel the notification to the pivot should come in the form of an OOP warning when they attempt to leave the engagement zone for a scoring pass.

Offline Nick Bergus

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Re: Star Pass?
« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2013, 02:06:12 pm »
I'm with Shover Duck. This is a legal star recovery (the rules of which, somewhat confusingly, fall in the star pass section of the rules) by the pivot and status is legally transferred. No need to make it more complicated or look for penalties to hand out.
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Offline PapaGanda

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Re: Star Pass?
« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2013, 02:48:41 pm »
I would have instructed the pivot to "remove the cover" and would have held the pivot subject to all out of play penalties had she left the engagement zone as she was not eligible to become the jammer due to the star not being legally passed. 

Had the pivot retrieved the star and handed it back to the inactive jammer...no penalty imo.

Edit: I agree with Midnight Mark
« Last Edit: February 16, 2013, 02:50:28 pm by Papaganda »

Offline Stanarchy

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Re: Star Pass?
« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2013, 02:03:18 am »
The way I look at it (would love to be corrected if this is not right):

Illegal Start Pass initiation is when any player other than the Jammer intentionally removes the Cover from that Jammer's helmet. I would penalize any and all of those.

Legal Star Pass Initiation
 - Jammer removes Cover - All Star Pass Procedure rules apply.
 - Cover removed by any other means - knocked off accidentally, falling off because it was not put on well enough, etc. - Recovery & Star pass Rules apply. Per Recovery - either Jammer or Pivot can retrieve the Cover and place it on their helmet (bolding mine)

[Rule]

3.5.8.1 - If a Jammer helmet cover falls to the ground or is removed from play by any means, it may only be recovered by the Jammer or Pivot.
 

3.5.8.1.1 - The Pivot is eligible to obtain Jammer status by retrieving a dropped Jammer helmet cover and placing it on their helmet unless the Jammer is in the penalty box, in which case the Pivot will not be considered the Jammer until the original Jammer is released from the penalty box and legally returns to play.
[/Rule]

Offline Darkjester

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Re: Star Pass?
« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2013, 07:28:21 pm »
In this case, since there was no initiation of a star pass this is a cover recovery, i would consider the original jammer to be an inactive jammer, and the pivot wearing the jammer cover to still be a pivot and apply all the regular blocker related penalties.  I would bot issue an IP for illegal star pass in rhis case. 

Am i out to lunch in my thinking?

You are 1/2 right.

Its a Recovery... But its a legal recovery='s Pivot turns Jammer.
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