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Poll

Would you allow your crew to use a smartphone app for timing penalties or jams?

Never
14 (35.9%)
Only for home/intra-league bouts
10 (25.6%)
Yes (Of course the device is on airplane mode only.)
9 (23.1%)
Non-Sanctioned Only
6 (15.4%)

Total Members Voted: 38

Author Topic: timing devices for PB and JT  (Read 8580 times)

Offline ShoNuff

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Re: timing devices for PB and JT
« Reply #15 on: May 24, 2013, 01:50:21 am »
This does get at the heart of the issue though.  Timing penalties is the easiest part of the penalty box.  Awareness is the important issue and the more of the box activity you focus on one person, the bigger a problem it becomes.

So you can run the box with one person.  You don't want to, but you can.

You can run the box on apps, but as several people have pointed out, it's not ideal and the big issues raised all end up circling around attention and focus. 
Are you able to maintain awareness of the track and skaters coming to the box? 
Are you able to know where all the skaters you are timing are in their penalties?

If a well written app frees someones attention and makes their job easier, I've got no problem with it.  But too often the approach seems to be, counting to 60 seconds is hard, we'll make it easier.  Unfortunately, that's not the hard part of the job and that's not the part of the job that differentiates an NSO struggling to get by from one in control of their position. 

In general, I just don't see the apps being of great benefit.

Offline Numb3r Crunch3r

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Re: timing devices for PB and JT
« Reply #16 on: May 24, 2013, 02:08:44 am »
I agree. The one time I've seen an app which I feel is genuinely as useful/more useful than stopwatches was on an iPad (not a phone). It timed all six positions at once, the buttons were HUGE (arguably you could press them without looking, or at least using your peripheral only) and there was a big 'start all clocks/stop all clocks' at the bottom to just tap with your thumb or whatever. Simple and effective, and most importantly - enormous.

I'm personally a huge stopwatch person, but when it comes to scrims where you only have the one person for the whole box, an app on a big screen like that can be really helpful.

Offline Samuel Bergus

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Re: timing devices for PB and JT
« Reply #17 on: May 24, 2013, 02:38:37 pm »
I think Eject addresses my main concern with apps being used to time penalties, whether he meant to or not.

I don't have a problem with the inherent fragility of the hardware running the app, and I don't have a huge issue with the lack of tactile feedback thus you have to look at the app in order to start/stop them, these could both be fixed with a bit of work.

My main issue is that it makes it too easy for someone to time penalties, especially jammer penalties, and not really know the rules behind it. By not knowing the rules, you don't know when things aren't going correctly. So when something screws up due to bad code in the app, you won't know, and will happily keep both jammers seated, or incorrectly release them.

Once you know the rules, I might be open to the use of an app, but at that point I don't really see an advantage.

Offline Darkjester

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Re: timing devices for PB and JT
« Reply #18 on: May 24, 2013, 05:48:37 pm »
By that exact same logic an inexperienced Penalty Box Timer who doesn't know the rules could just as easily foul up using stop watches.
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Offline SmackTavish

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Re: timing devices for PB and JT
« Reply #19 on: May 25, 2013, 06:43:50 pm »
So you can run the box with one person.  You don't want to, but you can.

Not according to WFTDA rules, you can't.
--SmackTavish

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Offline HIM-roid

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Re: timing devices for PB and JT
« Reply #20 on: May 26, 2013, 05:54:34 am »
WFTDA Rules say you can't or STandard Practices say you can't? There is a difference
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Offline Nick Bergus

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Re: timing devices for PB and JT
« Reply #21 on: May 26, 2013, 12:44:04 pm »
WFTDA Rules say you can't or STandard Practices say you can't? There is a difference

Rules.

[rule]9.1.5.3 - Penalty Timing Officials. A game will have at least two officials to oversee the penalty box. The penalty timing officials time penalties and assist referees in ensuring a team skates short when they ought.[/rule]
WFTDA-certified referee, level 2
Zebra Huddle moderator

Offline Darkjester

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Re: timing devices for PB and JT
« Reply #22 on: May 26, 2013, 03:51:36 pm »
And in that aspect I've seen 2. 1 Timer with an App and 1 Manager recording/reporting issues (Full box in Que's, improper entry, illegal action s including removal of safety equipment and skaters/coaches entering the box to communicate)

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Offline Knit Picky

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Re: timing devices for PB and JT
« Reply #23 on: June 09, 2013, 07:17:49 am »
I worked box at a bout tonight. My first time working PB this season at all. Last season it was only SW and there were 1/seat. It stunk. I got the app as back up. Today I worked 2 blockers on 1-I am in love. So much easier and you actually can get interesting feedback that you don't expect when PB timing how I do (I run the clock-no resetting unless there is an issue). I think it is the only way you can find how how long each jam was.

If using the app gets a bout staffed vs not having it staffed-use the app. But learn to do it right as well. For the love of derby.

I have seen phones run out of battery, black out in a 2
Min etc.  if you are going to use a phone use the stopwatch that is on it. Most (including non-smart phones) have one.

 

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