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Author Topic: Conduct in two-bout events  (Read 4835 times)

Offline Dr Thightanium

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Conduct in two-bout events
« on: April 29, 2013, 09:41:05 am »
I'm head NSO at an upcoming 2-bout derby night.  I have different NSOs rostered on for each bout (nice to have that luxury!). 

I have an NSO wondering if she's allowed to support one ["her"] team in the bout she's NOT NSOing in. Specifically she asks "Are there any issues of me being in the crowd and (loudly) cheering them on? I assure you Bout 2 I will be completely professional!!!"

This hasn't come up before because it's always been the same people NSOing for both!

Thoughts?

Cheers,

Dr T
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Offline Nick Bergus

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Re: Conduct in two-bout events
« Reply #1 on: April 29, 2013, 10:11:46 am »
I think there's a perception issue. Do fans, skaters and other officials trust the impartiality of an official who was, earlier that same evening, rabidly supporting a team? I'd ask her to either not cheer during either game or replace her in the NSO lineup.
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Offline Numb3r Crunch3r

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Re: Conduct in two-bout events
« Reply #2 on: April 29, 2013, 10:19:32 am »
I've don't personally have an issue with NSOs cheering before or after their game - up to a certain level of game. Our NSOs wear grey shirts (home games) or black shirts (games with NSOs from more than one league), and I don't consider them 'on the clock' unless they're in their shirt (same as refs in the stripes have to be very conscious of their behaviour), and the responsibilities of their game have started (ie pre-bout meetings, paperwork checking etc).

Then again - one of the bout-structures we're running this year in my area is a home-team 'Open Season' between all the home teams of the local leagues (5 leagues participating, 12 teams), where we're running 6 games from 9am to 9pm on any given day. As these are all home teams, there are refs and NSOs who are also bench managers, and there are league members who are NSOing a single game on the day, and come separately to cheer on their specific team/s. I see absolutely no problem with that, especially given the large and fairly casual (though well officiated) structure of the day.

Potential issues arise with a double header with A and B teams from a particular league, where you're cheering for the B team, then NSOing for the A team, however if you trust their professionalism...

At high level WFTDA games/tourneys it's generally considered that officials of all sorts will not show any team bias (t-shirts, public cheering etc) but for a general double header, whether home games or inter-league games, I wouldn't have any real problem with it.

IMPORTANT NOTE: I would hold them to a fairly high level of spectator behaviour. Respect for the officials rostered on for that game. Respect for both teams, even if you're cheering for one. Generally 'positive' cheering for successful actions/moments, rather than negative heckling/jeering of opponents or officials.

I would also remind them that if they are NSOing the second bout, they are not allowed to drink at any point, even while spectating - that they cannot be under the influence while officiating.

Offline Dr Thightanium

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Re: Conduct in two-bout events
« Reply #3 on: April 29, 2013, 01:30:58 pm »
I can appreciate differences in opinion about this, and thanks for replying. Further thoughts are welcome.

To clarify, she's a visiting NSO and "her" team is the visitor in the first bout against the home B team, and the bout she'd be NSOing in has the home league's A team, vs someone else. (does that make sense?) . She's enthusiastic but not rabid and accepts advice and instruction cheerfully, so whatever is decided I'm sure  be ok with it.
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Offline SeerSin

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Re: Conduct in two-bout events
« Reply #4 on: April 29, 2013, 01:38:45 pm »
I think it's pretty cool that she took the time to ask you if you're okay with it. But no, I wouldn't be okay with it. Officials can't just plop their "fan hat" on and expect everyone to forget their rabid cheering. 'in/out of stripes, 'on/off the clock' aren't relevant.

Offline DocSkinner

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Re: Conduct in two-bout events
« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2013, 05:49:03 pm »
If I precluded my officials from cheering when they are not working, I would soon have no officials. Most of my NSOs are husbands, girlfriends, SOs, or other family members of skaters. I'm not going to tell them they can't cheer when they are not working. When they are working, sure. But out of uniform as a fan, cheer.

Besides, it isn't like the crowd notices the NSOs.

Offline Major Wood

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Re: Conduct in two-bout events
« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2013, 05:54:54 pm »
If I precluded my officials from cheering when they are not working, I would soon have no officials. Most of my NSOs are husbands, girlfriends, SOs, or other family members of skaters. I'm not going to tell them they can't cheer when they are not working. When they are working, sure. But out of uniform as a fan, cheer.

Besides, it isn't like the crowd notices the NSOs.

They will when it was the person who was sitting next to them in the previous bout screaming.

I'm with Seer on this. I don't like it.

I wouldn't let any of my officials act like a fan in the first bout and then work the second bout. That is to say I am equating cheering in the first bout to drinking a beer in the first bout.
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Offline Shaun Ketterman

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Re: Conduct in two-bout events
« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2013, 06:28:48 pm »
I'm with Seer on this. I don't like it.

Agreed as well.  Also apply this to referee and NSO alternates.  What if in her off game some NSO can't continue and she needs to be pulled back in?  I was an alternate at a bout I attended and was sitting in suicide seating dressed as a spectator.  I made sure not to cheer for anyone the whole time.  It'd be too bad for the alternate to be needed and for it to look like to the audience and players as if this were happening: "Hey Team A superfan!  How'd you like to referee the rest of this bout?!?"; "Well don't mind if I do!!!"  Clearly that's going to raise somebody's ire and make it harder for you to do your job!

In the words of Larry David: "Curb your enthusiasm!"
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Offline Hayek Splosives

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Re: Conduct in two-bout events
« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2013, 10:41:37 pm »
I can see the validity in points made earlier about not allowing it, but I would personally consider this a special scenario, given that the team your NSO is cheering for is not playing in the bout she's officiating. I think that would mediate the possibility of perceived bias.

Offline Eject You Later

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Re: Conduct in two-bout events
« Reply #9 on: May 02, 2013, 10:55:37 pm »
If I precluded my officials from cheering when they are not working, I would soon have no officials. Most of my NSOs are husbands, girlfriends, SOs, or other family members of skaters.

That certainly may be true and I can't speak of how your NSOs would react to that.  However, I can speak for myself, personally.

When I was introduced to derby it was because my wife was skating on the local team.  She started first and I was brought along "for the ride."  Prior to becoming a referee I NSO'd at a couple of games, and as I was training to be a referee I NSO'd quite a bit.

I had no issue at all sitting and watching a game that my wife played in, refraining myself from cheering, because I would be NSO'ing the next game (or had NSO'd the previous one).  I was there to support her, but I was also an official for the game.  I understood that, and that was long before I became hooked on the sport.

I don't think sitting on my hands for an hour was an unreasonable request.  And phrased in a polite, respectful request I believe that many people would honor that without complaint nor taking offense.

Perhaps not.  But in my case it did.
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Offline Major Wood

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Re: Conduct in two-bout events
« Reply #10 on: May 02, 2013, 11:45:56 pm »
I can see the validity in points made earlier about not allowing it, but I would personally consider this a special scenario, given that the team your NSO is cheering for is not playing in the bout she's officiating. I think that would mediate the possibility of perceived bias.

I don't consider that a special scenario and don't think it mediates anything.
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Offline SeerSin

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Re: Conduct in two-bout events
« Reply #11 on: May 03, 2013, 12:55:17 am »
I can see the validity in points made earlier about not allowing it, but I would personally consider this a special scenario, given that the team your NSO is cheering for is not playing in the bout she's officiating. I think that would mediate the possibility of perceived bias.

Which teams are playing isn't really relevant either. You may end up officiating those teams at some point. Fan and official are mutually exclusive, one can't be both.

Offline SmackTavish

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Re: Conduct in two-bout events
« Reply #12 on: May 11, 2013, 07:15:00 am »
ECDX's rules (at least, for 2012) were cheering is okay out of uniform and no beer until the very end of the final bout.
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