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Author Topic: Proper procedure for a full penalty box  (Read 4320 times)

Offline Lucas

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Proper procedure for a full penalty box
« on: October 15, 2013, 08:42:56 pm »
I'm unable to find an official documentation on how to precisely handle the third blocker penalised when there are already two blockers seated in the box, and I've been told various slightly different ways of doing it. So I'd like to know if the following sentences are correct by the rules/the way it is usually done/consistent with the rules but not recommended/wrong/other:
  • A skater must go to the box and physically enter the box before being waived off (and therefore the PBM must wait for the blocker to enter the box before waiving her off)
  • If there are more than one skater waiting for a seat in the box, their penalties must be served in the order they were penalised

Offline Megapickle

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Re: Proper procedure for a full penalty box
« Reply #1 on: October 15, 2013, 09:05:12 pm »
Good questions - both are ambiguous in the letter of the rules. But neither of your sentences match current application.

On the first -- Exactly what is required to have reported to the box is not written. So the way we think about it: Some penalty boxes are fairly small due to venue restrictions. Forcing the 3rd skater to physically step inside the box in order to have said that she "skated to the box" (7.2.3), only to be waved back, is not necessary. They simply must come near the box, so that it's clear to the PBT/PBM/others that they're 'reporting'. Often, the limiting factor is the visibility of the player's number. Several times, I've had to wait till they get fairly close, so they can finally understand that I'm pointing at their shoulder. Then once they show me their number, I can issue the "color, number, return to the track" cue.

On the second -- "Served consecutively" (7.2.3.2) could be interpreted to mean "in order", but we think of it as "one after another, not concurrently". Whichever penalized player happens to sit first serves first. If two players are in the queue, it doesn't matter which order they're told to report to the box (though their numbers going onto the PBM's whiteboard in order will usually mean that they'll be directed in order). Or if a player is in the queue, but another player earns a penalty & sneaks into that 2nd seat before the queued player is direct off, that's absolutely not a problem.

Offline FNZebra

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Re: Proper procedure for a full penalty box
« Reply #2 on: October 15, 2013, 09:25:50 pm »
The third skater doesn't have to enter the box to be waved off. If there is going to be some time before one of the sitting teammates will stand, I have waved them off while they were still in the safety lane, approaching the box (BE CERTAIN TO GET THEIR UNIFORM NUMBER FIRST, so you can write it on the whiteboard you should have for indicating the queue). Conversely, if a teammate was just about to stand, I have waved the approaching skater into the box, even though it appeared there wasn't a seat yet. By the time she actually entered the box, a teammate was starting to stand. This is where teamwork and communication among the PB crew is vital, and must happen at a crazy time in the box.

Skaters penalties will be timed on a first come, first served basis. Which can lead to problems and skater frustration -- multiple skaters in a team's queue, different refs try to send different skaters off, for instance. At WFTDA D2 Kzoo, one queued skater was sniped by three teammates before she could serve.
You will bout as you practice.


Cheers,

FN Zebra
Bleeding Heartland Roller Derby (WFTDA)
Bloomington, Indianer

Offline Lucas

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Re: Proper procedure for a full penalty box
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2013, 07:59:08 am »
Do you (as a PBM) communicate to the refs that a skater is in the queue between jams, when there is no empty seat? The refs need to know who must be on the track (for delay of game), but showing a skater's number on your white board usually means that you are asking for this skater now (because you have an empty seat).

Offline Megapickle

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Re: Proper procedure for a full penalty box
« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2013, 09:58:42 am »
Do you (as a PBM) communicate to the refs that a skater is in the queue between jams, when there is no empty seat? The refs need to know who must be on the track (for delay of game), but showing a skater's number on your white board usually means that you are asking for this skater now (because you have an empty seat).

This one actually is answered in print, by the latest Standard Practices doc:

[rule]How should the Penalty Box Officials communicate to the referees that a skater has left the box early, owes time, or was waved off and now has a seat available?

The penalty box whiteboard is split down the center by color. When a skater owes time, a Penalty Box Official displays the skater number on the appropriate side of the board. If a skater remains in the queue between jams, the penalty box official should hold up the board to communicate to the refs which skaters are in the penalty box queue. If the skater was not released by a penalty box official, the number shall be circled. Upon seeing this, a referee sends the skater in question back to the penalty box. If the number is circled, the referee sees that the skater is not in the penalty box and assigns the appropriate penalty for early departure from the penalty box.[/rule]

So, holding the board up during the jam = direct the skater to the box now, there's a seat open. Holding the board up between jams = the skater is in the queue & must participate in the next jam.

Offline Samuel Bergus

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Re: Proper procedure for a full penalty box
« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2013, 01:35:54 pm »
So, holding the board up during the jam = direct the skater to the box now, there's a seat open. Holding the board up between jams = the skater is in the queue & must participate in the next jam.

I actually take it one step further, as there can be times where you are trying to retrieve a skater from the queue in between jams, and I like to make it clear what I am trying to do.

If I am trying to get a skater to report to the box, I will hold the whiteboard above my head, much like during a jam. If I am simply communicating who is in the queue, I will hold it chest high.

If communication is really clicking, I'll also use secret NSO signals (normally displaying a number of fingers) to tell the wrangler how many seconds it will be until I need to retrieve a queued skater.

Offline ShoNuff

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Re: Proper procedure for a full penalty box
« Reply #6 on: October 16, 2013, 07:23:36 pm »
One thing to be careful of is that many refs will tell a skater they are in queue when penalties happen between jams and they can see that there are two blockers already seated.

The skater was given a penalty and directed to remain on the track in queue so it's not on the skater to report to the box in that situation.  The ref who directed them back to the track is supposed to make sure they tell the box or tell someone in the center who can relay the information to the box.

Offline Bladeybug

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Re: Proper procedure for a full penalty box
« Reply #7 on: November 05, 2013, 12:50:17 am »
use secret NSO signals

Ha, I like how this makes it sound like NSOs all have a secret hand signal book!

Offline Samuel Bergus

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Re: Proper procedure for a full penalty box
« Reply #8 on: November 05, 2013, 01:48:49 am »
use secret NSO signals

Ha, I like how this makes it sound like NSOs all have a secret hand signal book!

Not a book, because that would be too easy to steal and use for evil!

In truth, there is a lot of non-verbal communication on on during a game (especially one staffed with a really strong officiating crew,) and not all of it is in the standard practices document.

Offline Bladeybug

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Re: Proper procedure for a full penalty box
« Reply #9 on: November 05, 2013, 03:03:37 am »
Oh yes, wouldn't want the secrets to get out!  ;)

But I agree... At playoffs I had some great eye contact and head nods from the box to infield communication happening.

 

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