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Author Topic: Penalty Tracking; Coach receives an Insubordination  (Read 5123 times)

Offline Traffic Jam

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Penalty Tracking; Coach receives an Insubordination
« on: February 20, 2014, 09:30:41 pm »
When a coach receives an insubordination penalty whats the procedure for marking the penalty on the tracking sheet? Or whats the best way to handle the situation on paper?
« Last Edit: February 21, 2014, 12:36:10 am by Traffic Jam »

Offline Charles Dickins

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Re: Penalty Tracking; Coach receives an Insubordination
« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2014, 09:36:22 pm »
When a coach receives a insubordination penalty whats the procedure for marking the penalty on the tracking sheet? Or whats the best way to handle the situation on paper?

The penalty is assigned to the captain. Mark the penalty on her line as if she had committed the penalty herself. (It is possible for a captain to foul out in this respect.)
Charles Dickins
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Offline Darth Bling

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Re: Penalty Tracking; Coach receives an Insubordination
« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2014, 10:41:59 pm »
Umm, no, it is not possible for a Captain to foul out in this respect.

Per the rules:
[rule]7.4.2.6 - Coaches and managers are held to the same standard of sportsmanlike behavior as skaters. If a coach or manager is expelled (see Section 7.4.2.1), that team’s Captain will serve a one minute penalty. However, that penalty does not count toward the skater’s penalty cap (see Section 7.4.1.1.1).[/rule]

Offline Charles Dickins

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Re: Penalty Tracking; Coach receives an Insubordination
« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2014, 11:06:53 pm »
My mistake. Thank you for pointing that out.
Charles Dickins
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Offline Darth Bling

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Re: Penalty Tracking; Coach receives an Insubordination
« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2014, 11:27:47 pm »
Hmm, you know what...  I may be wrong. The rules I quoted above only refers to expulsions, not major penalties.

I just searched the rules and I don't see anywhere that specifically addresses this situation.  Hopefully a more seasoned official can comment on this.

Offline Numb3r Crunch3r

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Re: Penalty Tracking; Coach receives an Insubordination
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2014, 01:58:08 am »
I've always understood majors that are assigned to the captain (or pivot) count towards totals. In the example you cited, the captain is substituting for an expelled player who cannot sit themselves, thus it doesn't apply to totals etc, it's just the serving of time for someone else.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2014, 09:49:28 pm by Numb3r Crunch3r »

Offline Darkjester

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Re: Penalty Tracking; Coach receives an Insubordination
« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2014, 04:24:04 pm »
Thats the same way I've always handled it.

If a penalty goes to the 'position' Captain or Pivot (as worded in the rules) they get it counted against them towards their cap.

If the penalty goes to one of the Bench staff (insubordination, misconduct, gross misconduct)  Its served by the captain time wise, however does not count against their cap.
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Re: Penalty Tracking; Coach receives an Insubordination
« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2014, 10:46:14 pm »
If the penalty goes to one of the Bench staff (insubordination, misconduct, gross misconduct)  Its served by the captain time wise, however does not count against their cap.

There's nothing in the rules about being able to give penalties to support staff, though - only expelling them.
In fact there is one rule that states that a specific penalty based on the behaviour of support staff will "go to the Captain" - 6.13.20.

Offline Darkjester

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Re: Penalty Tracking; Coach receives an Insubordination
« Reply #8 on: March 01, 2014, 03:10:04 am »
[rule]7.4.2.6 - Coaches and managers are held to the same standard of sportsmanlike behavior as skaters. If a coach or manager is expelled (see Section 7.4.2.1), that team’s Captain will serve a one minute penalty. However, that penalty does not count toward the skater’s penalty cap (see Section 7.4.1.1.1).[/rule]

Bench Staff = Coaches and Managers. If they break a rule (Misconduct or Insubordination) a penalty is assessed and served by the Captain. If they are excessive=Gross Misconduct; they get expelled.

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Re: Penalty Tracking; Coach receives an Insubordination
« Reply #9 on: March 01, 2014, 05:17:23 am »
[rule]7.4.2.6 - Coaches and managers are held to the same standard of sportsmanlike behavior as skaters. If a coach or manager is expelled (see Section 7.4.2.1), that team’s Captain will serve a one minute penalty. However, that penalty does not count toward the skater’s penalty cap (see Section 7.4.1.1.1).[/rule]

Bench Staff = Coaches and Managers. If they break a rule (Misconduct or Insubordination) a penalty is assessed and served by the Captain. If they are excessive=Gross Misconduct; they get expelled.

Yes, I think we're in agreement on that. What I'm saying is that there is no provision for this:

If the penalty goes to one of the Bench staff (insubordination, misconduct, gross misconduct)  Its served by the captain time wise, however does not count against their cap.

If it is a major penalty, it goes to the Captain fully - served and counted. The "captain serves but does not take credit" is only in the situation where bench staff are expelled - and that is exactly the same procedure for a skater being expelled, the person serving the time did not incur a penalty themselves.

Offline Charles Dickins

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Re: Penalty Tracking; Coach receives an Insubordination
« Reply #10 on: March 01, 2014, 12:38:59 pm »
That's how I read it too.
Charles Dickins
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Offline Darkjester

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Re: Penalty Tracking; Coach receives an Insubordination
« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2014, 03:30:54 pm »
There isn't any provision either for charging a Coach/Bench Staff's penalty to the skater either.

There are specific rules for when the penalty is assigned to the Pivot in a Jam, or the Captain in a jam. A coach saying "Your crew effing sucks" to a ref, isn't one. Its one where you issue it to the coach, and then of course make the Captain serve the time for it. Coaches and Bench staff don't foul out, but they are held to the same standards as skaters for conduct.
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Offline ShoNuff

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Re: Penalty Tracking; Coach receives an Insubordination
« Reply #12 on: March 03, 2014, 09:21:32 pm »
This is resolved in the new rule set.

[rule]6.1.4 - If a penalty is committed by a non-skater (e.g., by a team’s bench staff), the penalty will be assessed to the Captain, unless otherwise specified. If such an action is committed during a jam in which the Captain is not skating, the Captain will serve the penalty beginning in the following jam.[/rule]

So penalties to bench staff are not only served by the captain, they are assessed as a penalty against the captain and contribute to fouling out the captain.

Offline Darkjester

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Re: Penalty Tracking; Coach receives an Insubordination
« Reply #13 on: March 04, 2014, 05:55:38 am »
LOL I was JUST looking for this thread to update that as well :-)
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