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Author Topic: Declining a Penalty?  (Read 3216 times)

Offline ClockRoach

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Declining a Penalty?
« on: July 08, 2014, 04:39:27 pm »
This happened a couple of weeks ago at a scrimmage, and I was curious what people thought:

Between jams, skaters are returning to their benches. I saw what looked to me like one skater (let's say black) tripping a white skater who fell to the ground and called illegal engagement.

I was confident in what I saw, but the white skater claimed she was not tripped and fell of her own volition. Black asked for a review based on this. None of the other officials saw enough of the action to decide either way, so the conflict was between what I saw and what the tripped skater claimed to have experienced. White was, essentially, attempting to decline the penalty.

Since the rules for Official Reviews only really mention gathering information from the other officials, would you consider this sort of claim admissible? Can a team decline a penalty if the penalized team asks for an OR on the call?

Offline Stray Taco

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Re: Declining a Penalty?
« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2014, 06:12:04 pm »
Here's my take on it:

My knee-jerk reaction was: This isn't football, you can't decline a penalty.  And nowhere in the rules is a team allowed to do that.

Concerning the actual review:
[rule]1.11.1.4 - The Head Referee will investigate the review with the other referees and Officials, and use the information gathered to render a decision.[/rule]

While it says that the HR will investigate with other refs and officials, it doesn't limit the information used as only that information coming from those people. If the skater volunteered that information, then I would consider it as part of the information gathered.

If the case was where you as the official who saw the incident was mostly sure that the black blocker tripped the white blocker, then I might overturn the call.  However, in this situation, based on the information presented, I would be likely let the penalty stand, because:

1. Even though the skater claims she wasn't tripped, she doesn't have the benefit of your point of view. When you're the one tripping, it's often hard to identify the root cause.
2. If as an official you're absolutely positive you saw the trip, then that's the key for me.

So...declining penalty: no.  Taking skater-provided information: sure, as part of the overall picture but what officials saw needs to take priority.
Mike "Stray Taco" Straw

I know some things, but there's a lot more I don't know.

Offline Stanarchy

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Re: Declining a Penalty?
« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2014, 08:52:39 pm »
Was it intentional tripping?...  Or just an incidental wheel clipping sort of thing?  The latter one is not a cause for a penalty DURING the jam, and I personally would not issue a penalty for it between jams either, unless it was happening repeatedly with the same skater involved.


Offline Stray Taco

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Re: Declining a Penalty?
« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2014, 08:57:26 pm »
Was it intentional tripping?...  Or just an incidental wheel clipping sort of thing?  The latter one is not a cause for a penalty DURING the jam, and I personally would not issue a penalty for it between jams either, unless it was happening repeatedly with the same skater involved.

Heh...funny I didn't even look at whether or not it was a penalty, just whether or not it occurred. But it looks like it's still a penalty:

[rule]5.13.26 - A skater initiating contact or engaging an opponent before the jam-starting whistle that forces the receiving opponent out of their established starting position. This includes forcing an opponent down or out of bounds.[/rule]

Because she was forced down (i.e., she fell to the ground), it's a penalty.
Mike "Stray Taco" Straw

I know some things, but there's a lot more I don't know.

Offline Rev. Riot

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Re: Declining a Penalty?
« Reply #4 on: July 18, 2014, 10:00:59 pm »
Decline the penalty, agreed with no, that doesn't/cannot happen.

However, if the "tripped" skater says "no, I fell over my own feet" or whatever else she wants to say to indicate that she didn't get tripped, and in the absence of any other official having a view to say "No, I can see why she thought that, but I agree it was a trip", I would have enough doubt to be sure that a penalty was warranted and rescind the penalty.

Now, feedback from the aggrieved skater like "ah, but it didn't hurt that much" or "It's OK, I have thick skin and it didn't bother me", something basically relating to why the penalty did happen but shouldn't be called, that's different and something I'm not going to consider, like I said, I agree that they cannot decline the penalty.
Matthew Mantsch - Reverend Riot
WFTDA Rules Theory Committee
Gotham Girls Roller Derby - NYC

 

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