Menu

ZH Classifieds
ZH Files
ZH Staff
WFTDA 12/1/2014 Rules
WFTDA 3/1/2014 Rules

Donate

Please Support Zebra Huddle!

Recent Posts

Re: Resources for new referees. by Destructor
November 29, 2019, 01:13:40 pm

Resources for new referees. by Destructor
November 26, 2019, 06:01:48 pm

Jammer Passing Inactive Jammers by hellvis
November 14, 2019, 03:37:30 am

Re: JAMMER HELMET COVER by Stray Taco
October 03, 2019, 12:54:03 pm

Clover Cup 2020 - March 20-22 - North Richland Hills, TX USA by SodOff
September 28, 2019, 10:09:13 am

JAMMER HELMET COVER by 3Beers
September 22, 2019, 12:35:26 pm

Re: "Pincer" blocks = multipayer? by Bluebeard
July 11, 2019, 06:30:49 pm

"Pincer" blocks = multipayer? by Rego_Derby
July 11, 2019, 01:08:36 am

Re: Jammer Scoring Theory by Major Wood
June 26, 2019, 09:59:33 pm

Jammer Scoring Theory by Rego_Derby
June 25, 2019, 04:30:03 am

Author Topic: Overtime Jam ending due to fake Injury  (Read 5022 times)

Offline rollboy

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 23
  • Stats Sheet: 0
  • League Affiliation: Miami's Vice City Rollers
  • Referee Certification Level: Not Certified
  • NSO Certification Level: Not Certified
Overtime Jam ending due to fake Injury
« on: August 04, 2014, 08:22:16 pm »
Just a hypothetical question here as I was re-reading the rules.

What if, during an overtime jam, one team goes ahead by a few points then has on of their on-track skaters fake an injury or 'go down hurt' to get the jam called off? We might not know if it's fake or not, but if she can walk away under her own power and but didn't remove herself from the track causing the jam to get called off, I'd say it was a strategic move.

1.6.1.1 - If an overtime jam ends before two minutes for any reason, the game ends immediately and the score stands. Additional overtime jams will only be played if the score remains tied (with the exception in Section 8.2.6.3).

Would that skater be penalized at all? Or maybe get a suspension at the HR's discretion?  Can the HR order another jam if the last jam of an overtime period ended in the wrong spirit of the game?

Just hypothetical.

Thank you.
May the schwartz be with you.

Offline Darth Bling

  • Referee
  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 207
  • Stats Sheet: 6
  • Referee Certification Level: Level 3
  • NSO Certification Level: Level 2
Re: Overtime Jam ending due to fake Injury
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2014, 09:07:26 pm »
Would that skater be penalized at all? Or maybe get a suspension at the HR's discretion?  Can the HR order another jam if the last jam of an overtime period ended in the wrong spirit of the game?

Yes, in the event an the last jam ends unnaturally, the HR can order an additional jam.  So if you call the jam off for injury, you can have another jam.

Quote
8.2.6.3 - In the event that any jam (including an overtime jam) is called off prior to its natural conclusion (for example Sections 8.2.6.2.3–8.2.6.2.8 ) with time remaining on the jam clock but not on the period clock, the points from the jam will remain and an additional jam may occur at the Head Referee’s discretion. Such a jam will follow the rules for overtime jams (Section 1.6 - Overtime).

8.2.6.2.3 - An injury that is a safety hazard to continued game play.

As far as penalizing a skater for faking an injury... we'll that's a tougher call to make.  The skater will be out for at least the next three jams (so in all likelihood, they're out of the game unless you happen to have four more overtime jams).   As far as penalties... you could issue a misconduct to the skater for unsportspersonlike  conduct, but like all penalties you have to 100% sure of it.  Was the skater really injuried?  Maybe they thought they were injuried badly and then realized they weren't that hurt once the jam was called off? 

It's tough to say and it's not a penalty I would be comfortable issuing.  If you had enough doubt to call the jam off, then you probably shouldn't issue a penalty either. 

With that said, if a team does use a tactic like this, word will spread and other teams aren't going to not want to play against this team.  So in a way, the team will be penalized for it later by its peers.

Offline FNZebra

  • Superhero Member
  • **********
  • Posts: 1408
  • Stats Sheet: 35
  • I'm a shitty ref.
  • League Affiliation: Bleeding Heartland Roller Derby
  • Referee Certification Level: Not Certified
  • NSO Certification Level: Level 2
Re: Overtime Jam ending due to fake Injury
« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2014, 09:10:04 pm »
Would that skater be penalized at all? Or maybe get a suspension at the HR's discretion?  Can the HR order another jam if the last jam of an overtime period ended in the wrong spirit of the game?

No need to infer intent, or cast aspersions...

The injured skater must sit for the next three jams.

HR may not issue suspensions; only the governing body (e.g., WFTDA, MRDA,...) may do so, following their policies & procedures.

The HR can declare another jam will occur, if certain conditions are met:

[rule]8.2.6.3 - In the event that any jam (including an overtime jam) is called off prior to its natural conclusion (for example Sections 8.2.6.2.3–8.2.6.2.8) with time remaining on the jam clock but not on the period clock, the points from the jam will remain and an additional jam may occur at the Head Referee’s discretion. Such a jam will follow the rules for overtime jams (Section 1.6 - Overtime).

[/rule]
You will bout as you practice.


Cheers,

FN Zebra
Bleeding Heartland Roller Derby (WFTDA)
Bloomington, Indianer

Offline rollboy

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 23
  • Stats Sheet: 0
  • League Affiliation: Miami's Vice City Rollers
  • Referee Certification Level: Not Certified
  • NSO Certification Level: Not Certified
Re: Overtime Jam ending due to fake Injury
« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2014, 10:30:33 pm »
Damn, I forgot about 8.2.6.3. My bad.

Thanks for the clarification.
May the schwartz be with you.

Offline Admiral Packbar

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 65
  • Stats Sheet: 3
  • League Affiliation: Greensboro Roller Derby
  • Referee Certification Level: Not Certified
  • NSO Certification Level: Not Certified
Re: Overtime Jam ending due to fake Injury
« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2014, 05:10:51 pm »
As far as whether another jam will occur, that's been discussed already.

Concerning penalizing a skater who is "faking it."  - I am not a doctor.  I can't imagine such a situation where I could be confident enough that a skater is faking injury (short of her saying "I am faking it" directly to me) that I could justify penalizing for it.  This is a contact sport. Sometimes people think they are ok to skate when they are injured.  Sometimes they think they are injured when they are ok to skate. 

Err on the side of safety.
It's A Pack!

Offline Major Wood

  • Administrator
  • Has Too Much Damn Time Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2663
  • Stats Sheet: 77
  • League Affiliation: Nashville Rollergirls
  • Referee Certification Level: Level 5
  • NSO Certification Level: Not Certified
Re: Overtime Jam ending due to fake Injury
« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2014, 07:09:17 pm »
As far as whether another jam will occur, that's been discussed already.

Concerning penalizing a skater who is "faking it."  - I am not a doctor.  I can't imagine such a situation where I could be confident enough that a skater is faking injury (short of her saying "I am faking it" directly to me) that I could justify penalizing for it.  This is a contact sport. Sometimes people think they are ok to skate when they are injured.  Sometimes they think they are injured when they are ok to skate. 

Err on the side of safety.

I thought the same, until I saw it. We had basically the same situation happen during an exhibition game. It was incredibly obvious that it was a faked injury.
Your friendly Zebra Huddle admin.

Nashville Roller Derby Head Ref
WFTDA Level 5 Certified Referee

I speak only of my opinions and interpretations.

Offline derby medic

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 81
  • Stats Sheet: 0
  • League Affiliation: River City Rollergirls
  • Referee Certification Level: Not Certified
  • NSO Certification Level: Not Certified
Re: Overtime Jam ending due to fake Injury
« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2015, 06:57:13 am »
Ok, say it is obvious she faked an injury. Does she get a penalty? What penalty?

Since the jam was called off for her, she is supposed to sit three jams. Is this enough of a disadvantage to her team to warrant not calling the penalty?

If you do decide she has earned a penalty, what will that look like? More specifically, does she sit out for three, then serve? serve then sit out? substitution?
I propose the preposterous to promote and propagate pragmatism.

Offline BadgerBadger

  • Referee
  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 120
  • Stats Sheet: 1
  • League Affiliation: Crime City Rollers
  • Referee Certification Level: Level 2
  • NSO Certification Level: Not Certified
Re: Overtime Jam ending due to fake Injury
« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2015, 10:19:14 am »
There isn't a penalty specifically defined for this action (nor should there be, in my opinion), so most likely the HR would rely on the opening paragraph of 5.16 ("Misconduct/Gross Misconduct"):

[rule]When a Skater engages in extremely unsporting conduct, that Skater may receive a penalty or expulsion based on the degree to which the action is deemed inappropriate. This may include being rude to opponents, support staff, or audience members; physical contact outside the range of appropriate contact for the sport,; or any act that undermines the dignity of the sport.[/rule]

If the conclusion was that she deserves a penalty but not an expulsion, I would have her sit for three jams and have one of her teammates substitute for her in the box in the jam immediately after the "injury", in whatever position the skater was.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2015, 10:22:59 am by BadgerBadger »

Offline ShoNuff

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 351
  • Stats Sheet: 29
  • League Affiliation: Mad Rollin' Dolls
  • Referee Certification Level: Not Certified
  • NSO Certification Level: Level 4
Re: Overtime Jam ending due to fake Injury
« Reply #8 on: November 14, 2015, 09:37:45 pm »
I'd think an intentional action of this sort would fall under misconduct based on similarity to:

[rule]5.16.14 - Intentionally adopting a downed position so as to deceive a Referee into incorrectly calling a penalty on an opponent.[/rule]

They are adopting a downed position in order to deceive a referee.  Different purpose, end the jam rather than to cause a penalty call, but it seems like the best fit.

 

Featured Product

 

Zebra Huddle Head Referee Bout Booklet

 

Featured Classifieds


ZH Files

How to Score a Point in Roller Derby
Rating: *****
Downloads: 3980
Views: 6576
Filesize: 327.61KB
Date: January 17, 2017, 04:21:03 am
Comments (0)
By: AdamSmasher
June 2013 Ruleset situational questions
Rating: *****
Downloads: 2586
Views: 5364
Filesize: 29.71KB
Date: February 07, 2014, 04:57:32 pm
Comments (2)
By: Crash Test Ref
Rules Q&A and Publications for 6/15/13 Document
Rating: (None)
Downloads: 2787
Views: 6002
Filesize: 26.27KB
Date: August 02, 2013, 04:10:40 pm
Comments (0)
By: Shaun Ketterman
Rules Q&A and Publications for 1/1/13 Document (4/24/13 Updates)
Rating: *****
Downloads: 3582
Views: 5987
Filesize: 28.07KB
Date: April 25, 2013, 05:45:34 pm
Comments (0)
By: Shaun Ketterman

Powered by EzPortal