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Author Topic: Is this a link? (multi-player blocks)  (Read 3091 times)

Offline Shiny

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Is this a link? (multi-player blocks)
« on: April 14, 2015, 08:48:43 pm »
We’ve noticed some of the gals in our league crossing arms with each other with elbows bent and tucked to their sides when in a wall. This is not a ‘do-si-do’ link of elbows as the forearms never cross back over; this is more akin to the kind of ‘pinning’ with an elbow that would be illegal if it were used by one player on an opponent. It was suggested that the pressure of one elbow into the other might mean this is a MPB.

I’ll attempt to describe it in more detail but I may need to try to get a photo: blockers are next to each other on the track, hips & shoulders together. Each has the ‘touching’ arm bent at the elbow in a near-90 degree angle or tighter. The arms are crossed at the upper-arm point, just above or at the elbow. In most cases their arms are actually still between their bodies (as opposed to in front of them), they are just tight against each other and crossed.

Is this a link as per 5.7.9? The crossed elbows/upper arms *seem* to be holding the players together in a wall, though there is no outright grip taking place and it could be argued that they just have their arms crossed.

In theory, if a player tried to come between them, the blockers in question would either be able to have their arms swung forward and apart, or one (or both) would resist (push back at the opponent) and likely get an elbow call as it would amount to a 'bent but swinging' elbow.

Offline kornable

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Re: Is this a link? (multi-player blocks)
« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2015, 06:22:35 am »
I'm finding it hard to imagine what you are describing. However a simple way that I use to judge links for the purpose of MPBs is "anything that will help to stop the 2 players moving away from each other".

Offline BadgerBadger

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Re: Is this a link? (multi-player blocks)
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2015, 11:08:25 am »
I can't really visualize this either, to be honest. A picture would probably be helpful. :)

Offline llama of death

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Re: Is this a link? (multi-player blocks)
« Reply #3 on: June 17, 2015, 04:48:33 pm »
I’ll attempt to describe it in more detail but I may need to try to get a photo: blockers are next to each other on the track, hips & shoulders together. Each has the ‘touching’ arm bent at the elbow in a near-90 degree angle or tighter. The arms are crossed at the upper-arm point, just above or at the elbow. In most cases their arms are actually still between their bodies (as opposed to in front of them), they are just tight against each other and crossed.
A picture would help. Though from my reading of the description there is no link. You have gone as far as to say that if they where pushed apart/between they would swing outward away from one another uninhibited. No link, no MPB.

However, you have reason to watch it closely as you noted it can easily become an Elbows. While they are allowed to hold a player with their upper arm (part beginning just above the point of the elbow) they would have to keep from swinging it (not easy).

Is this a link as per 5.7.9? The crossed elbows/upper arms *seem* to be holding the players together in a wall, though there is no outright grip taking place and it could be argued that they just have their arms crossed.

[rule]5.7.9 - Linking with a teammate in a manner that, upon a physical challenge by an opponent, prevents said opponent from passing between said teammates.[/rule] Makes no mention of crossing limbs. But does refer to the definition of a link and impenatrable-wall, per the glossary.
[rule]Linking
Interlocking two arms via crooking of an elbow. Both Skaters’ arms, up to (but not including) the shoulder are considered to be part of the “link.”[/rule]
[rule]Impenetrable
A Skater or set of teammates is considered impenetrable from a certain direction when, to achieve a pass on one or more of the Skaters, an opponent would need to physically break said teammates’ bones or joints. The parts that would need to be physically broken in order to pass are considered the “impenetrable” parts. For example, if two teammates are skating forwards with their arms around each others’ backs, the arms constitute an impenetrable wall, so that an opponent could not pass between the pair without breaking said arms.[/rule]

In both, one needs to have not a set of crossed limbs but some sort of interlinking or connection which would require physically breaking them apart.

In theory, if a player tried to come between them, the blockers in question would either be able to have their arms swung forward and apart, or one (or both) would resist (push back at the opponent) and likely get an elbow call as it would amount to a 'bent but swinging' elbow.

I would argue that holding with the upper arm does not automatically equate to swinging. Though I would be watching that arm for this movement during this block.

Unless they initiate with the elbow itself or swing the arm. There is no call to be made here.
I play devils advocate a lot, it is always because I desire a complete understanding of the rule/scenario. I do make changes to my reffing often as a direct result of discussions resulting in a consensus. Particularly if it is contrary to my previous understanding.

 

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