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Author Topic: Skater throwing a helmet after jam ends  (Read 6187 times)

Offline Matthew Blessing (Paul Refvere)

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Skater throwing a helmet after jam ends
« on: August 26, 2015, 06:14:14 am »
During a game recently, a skater exited the track after the jam ended, removed their helmet while in the OPR lane and threw the helmet down on the ground with force, on their way to the team bench. Then proceeded to pick up a chair and throw it. No one was hit by any of the flying objects, but I was wondering if this would be a penalize-able action?

Thanks for any feedback!

Offline Stray Taco

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Re: Skater throwing a helmet after jam ends
« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2015, 07:24:09 am »
The first call is a very straightforward equipment violation.
[rule]5.13.22 - Removing required safety equipment (see Section 6.2.6 and Section 9.1.1).[/rule]

The second is a little bit of a judgement call, but I think it could easily be a Gross Misconduct call.
[rule]5.16.26 - Serious physical violence or any action deemed by the Officials to cause an extraordinary physical threat.[/rule]
If the chair came close to hitting anyone, it posed a serious physical threat. Heck, even if it didn't, the act of throwing a chair in a crowded bench area is dangerous and could cause serious harm depending on where it went.

Two actions, two penalties. I'd call both then the HR can send her to the locker room for the Gross Misconduct.
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Offline Darth Bling

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Re: Skater throwing a helmet after jam ends
« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2015, 07:24:43 am »
I could see an argument for a Gross Misconduct.  Throwing your helmet and then throwing a chair could be considered an act of serious physical violence.  And depending on where the chairs land, they could be considered a physical threat too.

[rule]5.16 - Misconduct / Gross Misconduct
When a Skater engages in extremely unsporting conduct, that Skater may receive a penalty or expulsion based on the degree to which the action is deemed inappropriate. This may include being rude to opponents, support staff, or audience members; physical contact outside the range of appropriate contact for the sport,; or any act that undermines the dignity of the sport.


Expulsion (Gross Misconduct)
5.16.26 - Serious physical violence or any action deemed by the Officials to cause an extraordinary physical threat.[/rule]


Offline Darth Bling

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Re: Skater throwing a helmet after jam ends
« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2015, 07:27:41 am »
The first call is a very straightforward equipment violation.
[rule]5.13.22 - Removing required safety equipment (see Section 6.2.6 and Section 9.1.1).[/rule]

I would not issue an equipment violation between jams. 

[rule]9.1.1 - Protective gear must be worn while skating in a jam, including to and from the Penalty Box. Failure to wear required protective gear or removal of protective gear, such as a mouth guard, will result in a penalty (see Section 5.13.22 and Section 6.2.6).[/rule]

Offline Stray Taco

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Re: Skater throwing a helmet after jam ends
« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2015, 07:48:00 am »
The first call is a very straightforward equipment violation.
[rule]5.13.22 - Removing required safety equipment (see Section 6.2.6 and Section 9.1.1).[/rule]

I would not issue an equipment violation between jams. 

[rule]9.1.1 - Protective gear must be worn while skating in a jam, including to and from the Penalty Box. Failure to wear required protective gear or removal of protective gear, such as a mouth guard, will result in a penalty (see Section 5.13.22 and Section 6.2.6).[/rule]

Point taken, although I find that interesting since the safety protocol requires it at all times.
[rule]4.5. All safety personnel should be aware of the gear of everyone on skates. If any
member is not wearing the required gear or wearing it improperly, the member must be
removed from the skating surface.[/rule]

That's a discussion for another day, though, and of course the Gross Misconduct still stands for the chair.
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Offline Major Wood

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Re: Skater throwing a helmet after jam ends
« Reply #5 on: August 26, 2015, 01:37:06 pm »
The helmet throwing is difficult to say. It is not an equipment violation. However, it could be viewed as extremely unsporting conduct and potentially warrant a misconduct or gross misconduct penalty. It is not specifically listed, but is covered by the opening paragraph to 5.16. I have seen skaters throwing their helmet several times before and it ranged from no impact to expulsion.
Side note: at a WFTDA tournament last year, a skater threw her helmet after fouling out or being expelled. A member of WFTDA Risk Management met her in the locker room, took her helmet away and told her she would need to get a new one for the rest of the weekend. This was because the level of impact to the helmet was so high that it might not offer sufficient protection to the skater.

Regarding the chair, I'm having a hard time picturing this happening in a way that I would not expel for. Especially when combined with the helmet throwing. I feel like this behavior is the definition of extremely unsporting conduct.

The opening paragraph of 5.16 misconduct/gross misconduct:
[rule]When a Skater engages in extremely unsporting conduct, that Skater may receive a penalty or expulsion based on the degree to which the action is deemed inappropriate. This may include being rude to opponents, support staff, or audience members; physical contact outside the range of appropriate contact for the sport,; or any act that undermines the dignity of the sport.[/rule]
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Offline Mav'Ricky

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Re: Skater throwing a helmet after jam ends
« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2015, 10:36:54 am »
I saw a fouled out skater in between jams launch their helmet at a wall during a tournament I officiated at earlier this year. I asked another (experienced) ref who didn't seem particularly bothered by it as it didn't hit or land near anyone else.
Be fair. Be clear.

Offline Vanilla VICE

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Re: Skater throwing a helmet after jam ends
« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2015, 03:06:17 pm »
I agree taking it off isn't a violation.

Historically when things like this happen and its in the middle of the make the call ref area, I tend to think the first "thing" is a misconduct penalty (the throwing the helmet), and the second thing (throwing the chair) is the point where I would make the case for the dignity of the sport gross misconduct.

Its not that I think one is any worse than the other, its just I think after the second "thing" its becomes MORE clear the dignity is lost.
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Offline Vanilla VICE

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Re: Skater throwing a helmet after jam ends
« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2015, 03:12:52 pm »
I have a follow up question: If I issued a misconduct for the first action, then expulsed the skater for the gross for throwing the chair, how much time should the sub serve? 30 or 60 seconds?

Does a GM have to result in penalty time?
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Offline Divide by Zero

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Re: Skater throwing a helmet after jam ends
« Reply #9 on: September 01, 2015, 03:45:58 pm »
I have a follow up question: If I issued a misconduct for the first action, then expulsed the skater for the gross for throwing the chair, how much time should the sub serve? 30 or 60 seconds?
Depends on if you consider them separate penalties or not. If you consider them a misconduct and a gross misconduct they are two penalties and two penalties should be served. If you consider it a misconduct which you upgrade to a gross misconduct then it's only one penalty.

Does a GM have to result in penalty time?
An expulsion is a penalty like any other and will always result in someone serving time.

[rule]6.4.2.3 - Expulsions are a special class of penalty; as such, the team an expelled Skater was on must play down one Skater for at least 30 seconds (except where shortened per Section 6.3 - Both Jammers Penalized/Both Jammers Off the Track), as if a penalty had been issued.[/rule]

Offline Vanilla VICE

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Re: Skater throwing a helmet after jam ends
« Reply #10 on: September 01, 2015, 04:39:05 pm »
Interesting, I was 98% sure about the expulsion penalty thing, but my first question was def an eye opener as far as the combinations of resolutions here. Thanks.
Muscogee Roller Girls: Columbus, GA
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Offline Major Wood

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Re: Skater throwing a helmet after jam ends
« Reply #11 on: September 01, 2015, 05:19:19 pm »
I think that you are limited to whether you consider them separate penalizable actions.
If the helmet throwing is separate and not a penalty on its own, then you are talking about one penalty.
If the helmet throwing is part of the chair throwing action, then it is one penalty.
If the helmet throwing is separate and a penalty on its own, then you are looking at two penalties.
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